The Budget Thread 2009

[Blagsta]

Well for me. I don't earn £150k pa I'm about half that but as someone else has said taking half of what someone earns is morally dubious. And what on Earth have they got against private pension schemes ask he's just pulled another £400 a year out of mine. I wouldn't mind paying more tax on my pension if they reform the public sector pension schemes which present a massive burden on all of us.

This is the final nail in their coffin, if they needed one.

You'll be OK then. What you moaning about?

 

[lewislewis]

£416m cut to Wales' budget. Not as bad as the £500m we were expecting, but it's still a decrease in public spending during a recession. We can't raise any taxes or borrow money like London can. This means after the recession Wales will be lagging even further behind in the economic tables, despite the Welsh Government's response to the recession being praised by the TUC as the best of any devolved administration.

 

[dennisr]

You'll be OK then. What you moaning about?

£75 K a year!!! and he moans about public sector pensions averaging £4000 a year

 

[Jeff Robinson]

No, if you look carefully at the bit I quoted, I was laughing at the idea (put forward by you) that the Tories might cut public spending by slashing SPADS, consultants, PFI, ID cards etc. They began most of those themselves before 1997, though New Labour have obviously taken it to new levels.

They will cut services like they always do, by aiming at the poorest and the frontline services. The idea that they are suddenly going to change their spots after a few hundred years is pretty damn funny.

Yep, they're going to fuck us over big time, yet fuckwits will still vote for them because they're against ZaNuLiarBore and Gordon Clown lolz. I can't believe people are buying this "there is no alternative but to slash public spending" shit from the free market witch doctors known as "economists". Yes we should get rid of the bollocks PFI and ID card shite but the tory spending cuts will so obviously pave the way for the private sector to step in and fuck shit up like they always do. Really, I don't know how in the current climate anybody can be bamboozled by the "let the market deliver the unlimited magic ponies" line.

Why should the poor pay for the criminal fuck ups of the rich? There's plently of money about to fund a budget. All those investment bankers, hedge funders and private equity cunts have an x amount of billions that could be forced out of them at knife point for a start. And then there's Cameron's millionaire bullington club cabinet - they could give us a few spare quid surely (particularly the murderer of African children Ken Clark who made his millions from killing African children - I'd be up for taking the shirt of back [I wouldn't look though *shudders*], the fucking child murdering cunt).

 

[glenquagmire]

And Rod Liddle - what a cunt.

 

[DownwardDog]

Compass seem to have won out with their lobbying of a tax on the rich.

They've won a perception of the tax on the rich. It's all been done with a sly wink to the 150k+ earners from the government by keeping the many circumventions in place. The amount of money this will raise is meaningless and negligible in the scale of Gordon's debt bukkake. It's been done primarily to placate the kind of ghastly bearded Trot Labour activist that they are going to need in an election campaign and to attempt to discomfort the Conservatives over whether they will oppose it or not. It's purely cynical politics that has fuck all to do with raising money for investment in schoolsandhospitals or social justice or any other similar bollocks.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

And Rod Liddle - what a cunt.

His articles could possibly be used as recycled toilet paper.

 

[kyser_soze]

Once again, let's remember that as a % of GDP, the UKs debt is now more in line with other EU nations, not a fucking basket case.

The other point as well is that at some point a lot of that money will come back when the govt sells the banks back to themselves. Now if only govt could be persuaded that keeping PSD in the 70% range was generally acceptable, got rid of PFI etc...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

More than 50% of anyones income taken away by the state is probably too much, at least morally IMHO.

Morally??????

Get a grip, man. And it is morally upstanding to have an income many times greater than the people around you who provide you with essential services?

 

[Mitre10]

The massive figures quoted for national debt levels are absolutely useless unless we know what percentage of the GDP it is and how that compares to other countries.

Currently the UK national debt isn't especially high when compared to other European countries as of 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

And there seemed to be no indication of how it is projected to change from all the coverage of it.

The 50% top rate of tax is a good start anyway.

This may be of interest to you - a graph arrived at by subtracting external debt from GDP to give the average net worth per citizen.

I believe it includes personal debt including mortgages but does not include assets such as houses.

What is alarming is how out of kilter we are compared to other countries. And not just the sensible countries. Italy used to be famous for excessive government borrowing, and it was taken as given that France and Germany, with their bloated public sector and high unemployment, were way ahead of us in the debt stakes. Not now.

One more cheery fact - the article was written in October 2008, way before Darling announced yesterday that he was doubling our debt again...


Full article here

http://www.creditloan.com/blog/americans-debt-to-income-ratio-as-compared-with-other-countries/

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

They've won a perception of the tax on the rich. It's all been done with a sly wink to the 150k+ earners from the government by keeping the many circumventions in place. The amount of money this will raise is meaningless and negligible in the scale of Gordon's debt bukkake. It's been done primarily to placate the kind of ghastly bearded Trot Labour activist that they are going to need in an election campaign and to attempt to discomfort the Conservatives over whether they will oppose it or not. It's purely cynical politics that has fuck all to do with raising money for investment in schoolsandhospitals or social justice or any other similar bollocks.

Indeed.

 

[glenquagmire]

Except that there aren't many, if any, ghastly bearded Trots left in the Labour Party.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

i don't know, i was sat in a meeting recently full of them.....it was like being in a time machine....

 

[DownwardDog]

Once again, let's remember that as a % of GDP, the UKs debt is now more in line with other EU nations, not a fucking basket case.

The actual amount of the debt is more relevant than the % as the UK is still, despite Gordon's best efforts, a relatively large economy. We can only treat ourselves to as much debt as we can sell. All of our debt has to be sold into the gilt markets which are experiencing what is euphemistically referred to as 'lumpy demand'. So we've got last month's failure of the 40 year bond auction, the BoE printing money to buy gilts and the new cunning ruse of the direct sales to syndicates of investment banks (hang on, aren't they the enemy?) all indicating that we're approaching the upper limit of the market's ability to digest our debt. What a fucking mess.

 

[London_Calling]

Well, I suppose that'll be the end of the ID scheme and at least a postponement of the next stage in Govenmment IT database ideas.

Relieved Crossrail sneaked under the wire.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Darling was on the radio this morning saying that the ID scheme will continue as the biometric passports are being introduced already so there is not a case for stopping.

 

[kyser_soze]

So we've got last month's failure of the 40 year bond auction,

Yes, 90% of the bonds sold counts as 'failure'. There were more undersubscirbed auctions during the boom that no one ever heard about. The QE issue was oversubscribed, indicating that while the markets don't have an appetite for long term risk (well, only 90% long term risk) in the medium terms they're still happy to buy UKG debt.

Mitre 10 - as someone points out in the replies, the reason the US comes out looking so rosy is that the blogger didn't bother to count any of the US's external debt, on the basis that because it's $ denominated it didn't count. Deeply flawed article all round really, and only there to make a conservative economic point about taxation and credit.

 

[London_Calling]

Darling was on the radio this morning saying that the ID scheme will continue as the biometric passports are being introduced already so there is not a case for stopping.

It was difficult yesterday to not form the impression Darling's not in charge of very much now.

Fwiw, I don't believe the ID scheme can survive politically, nevermind financially. Anyway, Cameron will be in office in 12 months.

 

[tbaldwin]

Well for me. I don't earn £150k pa I'm about half that but as someone else has said taking half of what someone earns is morally dubious. And what on Earth have they got against private pension schemes ask he's just pulled another £400 a year out of mine. I wouldn't mind paying more tax on my pension if they reform the public sector pension schemes which present a massive burden on all of us.

This is the final nail in their coffin, if they needed one.

Its only 50 tax on anything earned over 150k..... So somebody on £200k say would pay an extra £12,500 a year. I think they can probably afford it.
And given how many people are likely to be losing jobs and homes in the near future it doesnt seem the most immoral thing happening.

As for private pensions, you work for the pensions industry by any chance....Full of crooks....Was watching something on the one show about so called equity release schemes...another way for dodgy people in suits to rip off guillible people...so dont worry people from the pensions industry will always find another way to rip people off.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Its only 50 tax on anything earned over 150k..... So somebody on £200k say would pay an extra £12,500 a year. I think they can probably afford it.

Only an extra £5k in fact. But yes, they could afford £12,500 extra too.

 

[tbaldwin]

Only an extra £5k in fact. But yes, they could afford £12,500 extra too.

I stand corrected.....silly me....but actually its only £2,500 if you count it as a rise from the previously announced 45% tax...... Still i guess a few premiership players will be losing a lot of money so its not all bad...

 

[London_Calling]

But it’s not only about an extra 5% income tax is it; anyone on that kind of money will have investments and they’ve already seen 25% lopped off property values and 50% off shares. I doubt they can bear to think about pensions. Not suggesting sympathy for them but they are looking at a very different future now and I suppose this is just one more thing.

 

[kyser_soze]

But it’s not only about an extra 5% income tax is it; anyone on that kind of money will have investments and they’ve already seen 25% lopped off property values and 50% off shares. I doubt they can bear to think about pensions. Not suggesting sympathy for them but they are looking at a very different future now and I suppose this is just one more thing.

Boo hoo fucking hoo.

 

[London_Calling]

/aged 8

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But it’s not only about an extra 5% income tax is it; anyone on that kind of money will have investments and they’ve already seen 25% lopped off property values and 50% off shares. I doubt they can bear to think about pensions. Not suggesting sympathy for them but they are looking at a very different future now and I suppose this is just one more thing.

Um, unless they bought that property at the height of the boom, in most cases they have in fact seen their nominal profit from property go from astronomically high to simply very high indeed. And if some fucker wants to gamble on the stock exchange, that is entirely their own private affair.

It is idiotic and misguided to have any sympathy whatsoever for those who profitted most from the boom who are now no longer quite as FUCKING RICH as they were.

 

[London_Calling]

"Not suggesting sympathy for them"

"It is idiotic and misguided to have any sympathy whatsoever "

- helpful.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

"Not suggesting sympathy for them"

"It is idiotic and misguided to have any sympathy whatsoever "

- helpful.

Your 'not suggesting sympathy' followed a whole post suggesting sympathy.

It's like when someone starts a sentence 'No offence', you know they are about to say something that will cause offence.

 

[tbaldwin]

Um, unless they bought that property at the height of the boom, in most cases they have in fact seen their nominal profit from property go from astronomically high to simply very high indeed. And if some fucker wants to gamble on the stock exchange, that is entirely their own private affair.

It is idiotic and misguided to have any sympathy whatsoever for those who profitted most from the boom who are now no longer quite as FUCKING RICH as they were.

Have to agree...Most of the people moanining about falling house prices will have bought years ago...My sister bought her place 12 years ago for £43,000 a couple of years ago it was apparently worth nearly £300,000 now they would be lucky to get £220,000 so has she lost £80,000 or made £177,000....

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Your 'not suggesting sympathy' followed a whole post suggesting sympathy.

It's like when someone starts a sentence 'No offence', you know they are about to say something that will cause offence.

Or "I'm not being racist but...."

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Or "I'm not being racist but...."

Or Tony Blair's 'To be entirely frank...', a sure-fire sign that he was about to tell a porky.