Ah, but then you would say that, wouldn't you?
The Budget Thread 2009
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
No, you just wrote a "hahhahahaha" after my suggesting that actually, cutting some parts of the state would probably be a good thing, as opposed to cutting jobs and wages at the lower end of things.
This might suggest to someone reading it that you disagreed.
kyzer_soze said:
Not really. It is not "Tory Spin" to suggest that, actually, the state is spending our money on a lot of things that it really should not be spending money on.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
You really suck at reading comprehension don't ya?
(This is a rhetorical question, you do suck at reading comprehension.)
That is just a very ignorant narrow minded comment and the worst example of the 'relativist' mentality sweeping away those who are insulated against this crisis. Still no suprise there given posters history
The budget was the biggest political non event since the G20. It is so full of holes and economic variables that its little more than a joke. Think positive indeed
Example 50% top rate tax YET tax loopholes for the the rich remain unchanged
I am sick of the media hyperbole which ignores the reality that the budget , and the politicians are useless. IMO there is no party or politician or think tank with the ideas and polices needed to save the economy. This is because think tanks are only interested in the'un-intellectual' oxbridge mafia. If we are lucky then the economy and society as a whole may recover in ten years time. If we assume that the politcal elite and th eupper middle classes actually want to live in a real society, as opposed to a neo-con utopia. All the polices on offer and all the facts point towards a neo-victorian society.
i am being hard on the victorians given the views on poverty held by social reformers compared to the wadical welativist wallys of today
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
bemused
Well-Known Member
I was looking on the sunny side of life until that budget. Even things that don't affect me like the 50% tax worry me. If a Government needs to take over half of what people earn we're fucked.
Also the growth figures to pay down the debt must have been made up on the back of a fag packet.
Also the growth figures to pay down the debt must have been made up on the back of a fag packet.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
50% tax band is not taking half of people's earnings.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
Example 50% top rate tax YET tax loopholes for the the rich remain unchanged
Exactly, there is no point in having a 50% band while CGT remains at 18% as it will be pathetically easy to avoid. Gordon assumes, probably correctly, that the average Labour core voter is a bit thick and not too worldly in taxation matters and will assume that the new 50% rate actually signifies something beyond political chicanery.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Compass seem to have won out with their lobbying of a tax on the rich. Trouble is, many seem to predict that the measures on the £150k+ brigade could actually costs more than they bring in. Strange scheme that props up the car making industries of most of the rest of the world (but maybe this is a nation of salesman?). A scrap or morsel thrown towards the child poverty activists. And the most extreme and massive debt that anyone had experienced in a lifetime......
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The fact that this is only two pages in the current situation says something, I think.
Certainly it wasn't anything I wasn't expecting. I'm now fucked slightly harder than I was being fucked before, and am expected to be okay with that given that some very rich people are now earning slightly less. Plus ca change.
Certainly it wasn't anything I wasn't expecting. I'm now fucked slightly harder than I was being fucked before, and am expected to be okay with that given that some very rich people are now earning slightly less. Plus ca change.
the button
out on the kocker
I just did the KPMG budget calculator, and I'll be £30 a year better off, despite my heroic cigarettes and alcohol consumption. Things can only get better. 
bemused
Well-Known Member
When add National Insurance and all the other taxes it pushes the tax burden well over a reasonable level.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
Reasonable level for who?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
More than 50% of anyones income taken away by the state is probably too much, at least morally IMHO.
NI is 10% i understand, so 60% for high earners. I personally don't agree with it, not because those that take so much should pay less than that, but because it is easily avoidable for many of them. I believe Capital gains is much lower, there still exist loop holes for gifts/donations e.t.c. Any accountant or lawyer, presumably self employed where possible, will be able to minimize such loopholes.
bemused
Well-Known Member
Well for me. I don't earn £150k pa I'm about half that but as someone else has said taking half of what someone earns is morally dubious. And what on Earth have they got against private pension schemes ask he's just pulled another £400 a year out of mine. I wouldn't mind paying more tax on my pension if they reform the public sector pension schemes which present a massive burden on all of us.
This is the final nail in their coffin, if they needed one.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
But we get paid less - or summat...
Combustible
Well-Known Member
Even if it were true that they are taking half their earnings (which it isn't even with NI), so what? What's so special about the figure 1/2? Do you have any complaints about the budget apart from the fact a small rich minority will pay slightly more tax (unless their accountants get them off the hook).
EDIT Apart from the lack of public sector pension cutting that is.
Corax
Luke 5:16
Imoral earnings matched with an immoral tax. I'm relatively happy with that.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
That is just a very ignorant narrow minded comment and the worst example of the 'relativist' mentality sweeping away those who are insulated against this crisis. Still no suprise there given posters history
The budget was the biggest political non event since the G20. It is so full of holes and economic variables that its little more than a joke. Think positive indeed
Example 50% top rate tax YET tax loopholes for the the rich remain unchanged
'un-intellectual' oxbridge mafia. If we are lucky then the economy and society as a whole may recover in ten years time. If we assume that the politcal elite and th eupper middle classes actually want to live in a real society, as opposed to a neo-con utopia. All the polices on offer and all the facts point towards a neo-victorian society.
i am being hard on the victorians given the views on poverty held by social reformers compared to the wadical welativist wallys of today
Well, I guess we should bow down to your stunning analysis and policy making skills then, eh brass? The man who makes a hoot about local media suffering then when challenged to actually do somethinig goes remarkably quiet.
You're as trouserless as everyone you endlessly criticise - altho at least you've moved on from accusing anyone who has a job from being 'middle class' to 'relativist'...
BTW - does anyone on here actually know how their tax/NI is calculated? It doesn't look that way...
Not so fast.
It's a shame most of you have focused just on the Income tax and NI. Taken together, all of the taxes we pay for directly or indirectly easily total much more than 50% of income for pretty much everyone who is on an average income or less. Many other direct taxes (for example) fuel duty, are passed onto us in the price of goods and services - there are very few products that do not require transport. Plus things like council tax are quite regressive. The total tax burden on most of us is huge.
Do you have a mathematical formula for distinguishing "moral" from "immoral" earnings, because I'd really like to see it.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Yes, and disprportionatly heavy on the poorest in society. The richest decile pay something like 35% of their incomes in tax, the lowest decile 55%.
So there's your immoral tax burden.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
This is correct. So the hype about the "rich being hit hard" doesn't even approach being true.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
No, if you look carefully at the bit I quoted, I was laughing at the idea (put forward by you) that the Tories might cut public spending by slashing SPADS, consultants, PFI, ID cards etc. They began most of those themselves before 1997, though New Labour have obviously taken it to new levels.
They will cut services like they always do, by aiming at the poorest and the frontline services. The idea that they are suddenly going to change their spots after a few hundred years is pretty damn funny.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Every single time Osborne or Cameron get up and start banging on about GBs irresponsibility re: the credit boom or City regulation I get a weird angry/laughing feeling - as if the Tories would have done anything differently, especially WRT regulation!
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