Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The 'abolition of Parliament bill': New Labour's madness - the law-is-an-assylum

MatthewCuffe

New Member
I haven't checked details of this yet, but have heard rumblings. Anyone with any doubt that behind President Blair's idiotic smile and absurd accent there lurks an evil totalitarian - perhaps this could be the final straw for you.

I still think he's more Mussolini than Hitler - i.e. a bit more of a twat and a bit less effective...nonetheless I have no doubts that behind that dumb Cliff Richard shop window his intentions are very, very bad.

Couldn't happen here? Just did, 1997-2006.

Sounds worthwhile kicking this one in.

Lock him up. Don't throw away the Reg Keys.

NO PASARAN!

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/02/334161.html

:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
a lawyer on another forum mentioned this, i will quote him because his post explains a lot about it:

Presently your government is distracting you and the media with the exciting 'bright shiny things' of the smoking ban and ID cards.

These simple to grasp issues with marginal controversy give every idiot who has an opinion the opportunity to wax lyrical about whatever irrational nonsense they choose.

Meanwhile there is a far more complicated, far less 'sexy sounding' bill before parliament.

A far more dangerous and a far more destructive proposition.

The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill (found here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/111/06111.1-4.html#j001 )

This is described as:
"A Bill To enable provision to be made for the purpose of reforming legislation and plementing recommendations of the Law Commission, the Scottish Law Commission and the Northern Ireland Law Commission; to make provision about the exercise of regulatory functions; to make provision about the interpretation of legislation relating to the European Communities and the European Economic Area; to make provision relating to section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972; and for connected purposes. "

Sounds pretty innocuous doesn't it?

Well let's see if it is:

1 Purpose
(1) A Minister of the Crown may by order make provision for either or both of the following
purposes?
(a) reforming legislation;
(b) implementing recommendations of any one or more of the United Kingdom
Law Commissions, with or without changes.


Now this ought to be pretty clear to understand. This is a new power entitling a minister to make orders but what will these orders involve???

2 Provision
(1) An order under section 1 may for either purpose specified in subsection (1) of
that section make provision amending, repealing or replacing any legislation.

(2) Provision under subsection (1) may amend, repeal or replace legislation in any
way that an Act might
, and in particular may amend, repeal or replace
legislation so as to?


Previous to this bill the power to do this amending, repealing or replacing of any legislation was held by Parliament ALONE

Now that is Parliament in the sense of the Queen in parliament, both the House of Commons and the House of Lords agreeing by majority vote and the Queen consenting to sign the Act.

The list of powers the minister recieves is found in the remainder of section 2 (follow the link). I've not included it in order to shorten the post.

However this list is extensive and covers pretty much every power that parliament has. The telling phrase is "may bind the Crown". This means ministers acting alone without the need for a debate or vote in Parliament may create laws by order.

For examplethere is a provision in the terrorism act which states detention without charge can not last longer than 28 days. If this bill comes into force a minister may simply 'amend' that section to read 90 days, or 1000.

Now you might think that there ought to be control on ministers (who are not appointed by the people) when they utilise these powers.

These are found in section 3. "A Minister may not make an order under section 1... unless he considers that the conditions in subsection (2), where relevant, are satisfied in relation to that provision."

So the control mechanism on the minister's action are THE MINISTER HIMSELF

There are 3 specific areas where the minister is not given the divine right of kings and these are:

s. 5. - Taxation - The minister can't change taxes.

s. 6. - Criminal Penalties - The minister can not create new crimes or amend old crimes that have a penalty of over two years imprisonment. But he can create new crimes or amend old crimes so that the term of imprisonment is upto 1 year and 364 days.

s. 7. - Forcible entry - The minister can't change or create a law giving right of forcible entry or compelling the giving of evidence, unless: 1)The change is "similar to those to which the power applied before the order was made." or 2)The change is recommended by a Law commission.

There is a final condition on ministers, their change like all delegated legislation must (s. 4) go before both houses for a formal vote as a Statutory instrument.

Now Statutory Instruments are tabled in the House 'en masse'. Several thousand can be passed in a year, no parliamentary time is given to debate statutory instruments. They are administrative documents. They are not scrutinised. They are block voted on and hardly any MP's even bother to attend the voting.

Now you may all think that this bill will make Parliament redundent while creating an oligarchy of ministers who have the power to make any laws and do whatever the hell they like.

If you do think this you are not alone.

the italics/bold are his. i cant see how mps will allow this to pass?
 
Well, hopefully very few. But - because of 1st past the post, don't forget that there are a lot of Blairite drones in the chamber who shouldn't be there. It hardly reflects public opinion at all. And, what with the various techniques of control that go on, who knows. A lot obviously depends on what the Conservatives and Liberals will do collectively. I have no idea about where the forces lie tonight. Does anyone else?

This is dark, dark stuff. A greater tyranny than at any time since Charles I, and all that at a time when we are sending more troops to Afghanistan. And with the cartoons, the Iraq video, the 22% gas price rises, the harder economic outlook, the nonsense with Iran...

In what possible sense can this disgraceful so-called government survive?

If we're all asleep, that's how.

SOLIDARITY IN THE UK.

:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
MatthewCuffe said:
I haven't checked details of this yet, but have heard rumblings. Anyone with any doubt that behind President Blair's idiotic smile and absurd accent there lurks an evil totalitarian - perhaps this could be the final straw for you.

I still think he's more Mussolini than Hitler - i



He's a twelve-foot lizard, I tell you!
 
MatthewCuffe said:
Can We Please Stop Fucking About Arguing And Unite Against Blair And New Labour

Please Please Please
Realistically we will either have Labour or Conservative or maybe one of these two in coalition with the Lib Dems.

Which of these outcomes is the least bad in your opinion?

What political priciples should we all unite around?

I can't really see any "uniting" happening without some level of arguing.
 
MatthewCuffe said:
I haven't checked details of this yet, but have heard rumblings. Anyone with any doubt that behind President Blair's idiotic smile and absurd accent there lurks an evil totalitarian - perhaps this could be the final straw for you.

I still think he's more Mussolini than Hitler - i.e. a bit more of a twat and a bit less effective...nonetheless I have no doubts that behind that dumb Cliff Richard shop window his intentions are very, very bad.

Couldn't happen here? Just did, 1997-2006.

Sounds worthwhile kicking this one in.

Lock him up. Don't throw away the Reg Keys.

NO PASARAN!

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/02/334161.html

:mad: :mad: :mad:
This is disturbing, to say the least. As crap as the status quo may be, ministerial government would be far, far worse. BUT your insane, gibbering hysteria about Hitler and Mussolini is neither helpful nor relevant.
 
Barking_Mad said:
this bill makes ID cards look like a Burton's Store Card.

I don't know about Burton's cards, but my ID card does looks a bit like a store card. And is, in opinion, just as innocuous.
 
Please, nobody let this nob derail the thread onto ID. That particular dead horse has been flogged enough here and I'd like to hear how the Blairite types here justify this bollocks...
 
I'd say unbelievable, but it's all too believable :(

The slack wording of some of that is sickening. I can't say much really - obviously wrong. Write to your MP if you think they'll listen!
 
In Bloom, I wish it were so. I wish such historical parallels were the stuff of nonsense. I have spent the past five years or so wondering if I am insane. I no longer have any doubts. Yes I am - but the people in power are far, far more insane. And they are putting through the legislation to prove it. I'm just ranting on the internet. Choose which one you want to ignore - but please don't ignore the ones in the House of Commons.

The comparison between the Enabling Law and this Bill is correct. Beware of ANY complacency at a time when we are being told to face a 50 year conflict.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...2&headline=terror-for-50-years-name_page.html

From their perspective, I would be laughing. The population is so mistrustful of each other that we are operating in our own little isolated zones and our groups that are suspicious of one other. Instead of being relentlessly and remorsely suspicious of the madness coming out of the small minority that has hijacked the Labour party, we bicker amongst ourselves. Our majority is cut into a thousand autistic minorities.

Divide and rule - it's not exactly new.

Unite now, or it's 50 years of war, ID cards, ASBOs, SOCPA, KRATOS, this bill, Guantanamo justice. What we are seeing today is only the beginning of a much longer process.

I wonder what it will take to get more of this population of consumers and "I don't do politics" cynics to wake up and resist AS ONE the greatest tyranny in this land since Charles I.

Lock me up in an asylum if you like. Another one bites the dust in the detention centres and the dispersal units of the land. Seeking it these days is no picnic.

Good luck. Fight the power, stop fighting each other!
 
Teejay said:
Realistically we will either have Labour or Conservative or maybe one of these two in coalition with the Lib Dems.

Neither of these outcomes will help. The Conservatives are falling over themselves to agree with almost everything New Labour does. The Lib Dems are not much better on domestic issues.

The first half of this article in the Times is just handwringing stuff, but it's well worth reading from "Now I know what I am about to tell you is difficult to believe (Why isn’t this on the front pages? Where’s the big political row?)"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2040625,00.html
 
In Bloom said:
Please, nobody let this nob derail the thread onto ID. That particular dead horse has been flogged enough here and I'd like to hear how the Blairite types here justify this bollocks...

Well I'm no Blairite, but would probably be lumped in with them...so...

Walk Blair from S James to Charing Cross and decapitate him, same as happened to Charles I who wanted similar bollocks.

This is the kind of shite that even I'll get off my arse and get violent about.
 
Once again, please check out Political Compass's interpretation of the UK 2005 General Election. www.politicalcompass.org

It's graphic. You can see from the picture that Blair has conned us. No wonder the Conservatives agree with 3/4 of what he says - he is one. There is only a tiny element of left-wing representation left in Parliament. We have to make it - loud, proud, unified - outside it.

Kyser, I admire your passion against the Kaiser. Good stuff. But if we're violent it gives them carte blanche to put through the Enabling Law and every other tool of repression they like. We must be as passionate as those who fought Charles I - but non-violently.

I don't want to sound like a prick. The time for worrying about that, though, is gone. I don't care who disagrees with me. I studied history at Oxford University and focused on totalitarian regimes. I know the shape of their FLOW. They don't just arrive overnight, they happen over the course of a thousand steps without proper opposition. It's happening here now and I don't care who thinks I'm insane for saying it.

I'm not boasting. I learnt nothing at uni you couldn't learn from 3 years in the university of life. We all know what's really going on, and we all know OUR path in blocking it.

Good luck. I'm nobody much, but I'm with you. And I don't give a damn whether you're SWP, IWCA, Respect, Socialist Wanker, Green, Lib Dem, Tory, UKIP or whatever else. If you hate tyranny, I'm marching arm-in-arm with you, brother and sister.
 
MatthewCuffe said:
Once again, please check out Political Compass's interpretation of the UK 2005 General Election. www.politicalcompass.org It's graphic. You can see from the picture that Blair has conned us.
Tony Blair's position on the political compass wasn't put there by him - they won't say how they put him there and your ranting is inappropriate on this point at least. Where are you on the compass? I score Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.90. I pulled together my own diverse professional team to imagine what his position would be and came up with Economic Left/Right: -0.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26 for Tony Blair. I would back my own diverse professional team of experts over those anonymous people in Political Compass, but even if you don't, at least please admit that this website has no relevance to the point you want to make.
 
Bloody hell! :eek: :eek: :eek:
I'd like to think this couldn't get through parliament, but I would have said that about detention without trial a few years back...
 
MatthewCuffe you make some good points sometimes but it is also true that your rather bloated rhetoric is liable to distract from those points. I think if your writing style was a bit calmer and a bit less like you're on methamphetamine all the time people would find it easier to digest. You can't transfer a sense of urgency to people except through reasoned argument.
 
I'm amazed they're trying to get this through at all. What are the reasons being given for it's proposed introduction?
 
My words are irrelevant. It is the wording of each and every one of these laws that transfers urgency. Inside each of the words there exists the theft of another liberty in the name of an unwinnable war. There is no 'war on terror'. Terrorism is one side of a coin. These laws are written for long long wars. They contain no reasoned argument, just the irrationalism of 'us versus them' thinking. There is not effective opposition within Parliament. What can we do about it?
 
TBH I can't see too many Tories supporting this, let alone it actually coming into law since it violates so much of parliaments power - for a newspaper like the Mail or Torygraph the easiest line is to reiterate 'control freak Blair' and for the Tories under Cameron it's a wide open goal - even Thatch never tried to get something like this through.

And that's before the huge number of legal challenges it could face within the EU. However, I still quite fancy marching Bliar out to Charing X and re-enacting Chuck 1...
 
kyser_soze said:
TBH I can't see too many Tories supporting this, let alone it actually coming into law since it violates so much of parliaments power - for a newspaper like the Mail or Torygraph the easiest line is to reiterate 'control freak Blair' and for the Tories under Cameron it's a wide open goal - even Thatch never tried to get something like this through.

And that's before the huge number of legal challenges it could face within the EU. However, I still quite fancy marching Bliar out to Charing X and re-enacting Chuck 1...
Yeah, but if Cameron seriously thinks he'll get in next time then wouldn't this be a convenient law to have already passed!

The main problem with laws like this isn't necessarily the present administration - it's the potential for future problems that scares.
 
"Repeal or replace any legislation"? Does that really mean ANY? Because couldn't a government do something like delay a general election using that sort of thing. Y'know in the interests of national security or something?! :eek:
 
I'm crap at maths.

And if I'm putting two and two together and making a big fat 1984 five, then string me up from the rafters of the High Court.

But this Bill - and all the more high-profile 'reforms' currently being strongarmed through + the '50 year war' line from the police deputy commissioner.

What does that add up to on your abacus?

On mine, it's an Enabling Bill and it's very very very very bad indeed.
 
Back
Top Bottom