The 7/7 Report

[Badger Kitten]

To be fair, they have not attended private closed survivors meetings, though they have written to me asking - nay - demanding to attend. They disrupted a book launch at which survivors were in attendance with tales and pamphlets alleging the bomber's innocence, and made constant efforts to interrupt and ask questions.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Here is an independent report into what went on at the interupted book launch meeting...


Meanwhile Prole, any news on why you ignore DNA evidence, CCTV, police forensic evidence, survivor evidence, in favour of positing that the bombers were innocent?

I see you are now speculating it was a far right plot on your blog. Any reaosn why you will not accept it was a plot by 4 young British extremist bombers, using suicide bombs?

 

[Prole]

From 77 section of the forum of the ''British 9/11 Truth'' site, frequented by Prole...

Must be that same theory of collective guilt eh BK?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Must be that same theory of collective guilt eh BK?

You dishonest, morrally and intellectually bankrupt prat.

You know full well that that was an answer to your demand for sources that say that "truthseekers" have called the families of vicitms.

 

[Prole]

Here is an independent report into what went on at the interupted book launch meeting...


Meanwhile Prole, any news on why you ignore DNA evidence, CCTV, police forensic evidence, survivor evidence, in favour of positing that the bombers were innocent?

I see you are now speculating it was a far right plot on your blog. Any reaosn why you will not accept it was a plot by 4 young British extremist bombers, using suicide bombs?

CCTV? Really? Have you seen DNA evidence btw? Do you know how to identify it?

Whatever happened to the story of Lindsay's DNA being extracted from the pay and display ticket on his red Fiat Brava? We are told in the official report that this was towed away for non-display of a pay and display ticket although a member of the J7 Truth Campaign visited Luton car park to find that vehicles would be clamped for non-display rather than towed away.

For one week the Piccadilly Line 'bomber' was identified as Ejaz Fiaz (with the blonde bleached hair and also living in Luton) until Lindsay's wife reported him missing on 13/7, when police searched Lindsay's home, by the 15/7 property belonging to Lindsay was found at the scene and he was identified as the 'bomber' on the 16/7.

Are you aware of any other victims having their homes searched after they were reported missing?

BTW BK do you still have faith in the official report now it has been exposed as being inaccurate? Phillip Russell's father asks how can we trust anything else in it, do you share that sentiment?

 

[Prole]

To be fair, they have not attended private closed survivors meetings, though they have written to me asking - nay - demanding to attend. They disrupted a book launch at which survivors were in attendance with tales and pamphlets alleging the bomber's innocence, and made constant efforts to interrupt and ask questions.

Who are 'they' BK? Some homogenous group? And what happens to people who you demand phone you like Bigfish? Or is it OK for you and Ed to make demands, one rule for you and all that..

 

[Badger Kitten]

CCTV? Really? Have you seen DNA evidence btw? Do you know how to identify it?

Whatever happened to the story of Lindsay's DNA being extracted from the pay and display ticket on his red Fiat Brava? We are told in the official report that this was towed away for non-display of a pay and display ticket although a member of the J7 Truth Campaign visited Luton car park to find that vehicles would be clamped for non-display rather than towed away.

For one week the Piccadilly Line 'bomber' was identified as Ejaz Fiaz (with the blonde bleached hair and also living in Luton) until Lindsay's wife reported him missing on 13/7, when police searched Lindsay's home, by the 15/7 property belonging to Lindsay was found at the scene and he was identified as the 'bomber' on the 16/7.

Are you aware of any other victims having their homes searched after they were reported missing?

BTW BK do you still have faith in the official report now it has been exposed as being inaccurate? Phillip Russell's father asks how can we trust anything else in it, do you share that sentiment?

Prole, when the police announce that someone has been murdered and they have the DNA that enables them to identify the killer, I don't assume they are lying. When I was raped by a stranger and his DNA was taken 6 months later when he was arrested for robbery, I did not assume that the police were lying or making it up, nor did I ask to see the lab report. I'm not mad or paraniod, see.

Prole, I am convinced that Lindsey killed 26 and injured 340. I am convinced Khan killed at Edgware, that Tanweer killed at Aldgate., that Hussein killed at Tavistock. I do not need to see their body parts because I am not a sick ghoul. Nor do I operate under the presupposition that the police who are working on the case, many of whom I have met, and the media, (ditto) and the Home Secetary ( previous and current) and Tessa Jowell ( ditto) are all engaged in some complicated cover up and conspiracy, which only You, Prole, a middle aged woman who has an internet connection and ''intuition'' because ''something shifted for me on 7/7'' can discern.

You see, Prole, faced with the choice of hundreds of senior, expert people working on a mass murder case, versus one woman who seems to be to be in the grip of some kind of unfortunate breakdown, and her internet pals, I tend to assume that the entirely credible information they share, plus the testimony of 2 of the bombers themselves, plus the testimony of Muslims who say that extremisim is a real problem, plus the fact that we have had UK suicide bombers before, just not in this country, plus the testimony of the IT expert who warned of their extremism in 2003, plus the eye witness account of Danny and John Tulloch both of whom I know personally and have spoken to at length...I tend to assume that they are right, and that you Prole are likely obsessive and deluded and tiresome. And should get a less unpleasant hobby than peddling lies exonerating killers, and feeding the atmosphere of distrust and denial in which extremists thrive.

Whatever happened to the story of Lindsay's DNA being extracted from the pay and display ticket on his red Fiat Brava? We are told in the official report that this was towed away for non-display of a pay and display ticket although a member of the J7 Truth Campaign visited Luton car park to find that vehicles would be clamped for non-display rather than towed away

Gosh do you think it could have been from any old pay and display ticketDoes it have to be the 7/7 pay and display ticket? Who knows? And as to whether the car was towed away - could it be that it was wanted in connection with an aggravated burglary- on investigation it turned out to contain a hand gun. Or about clamped cars - are they left there for a week, or are they towed away? What if nobody claims the clamped car? Does it stay there forever? Or is it towed after a few weeks? One week? Three days? Have you investigated that? I doubt it. Why don't you phone up and see?

For one week the Piccadilly Line 'bomber' was identified as Ejaz Fiaz (with the blonde bleached hair and also living in Luton) until Lindsay's wife reported him missing on 13/7, when police searched Lindsay's home, by the 15/7 property belonging to Lindsay was found at the scene and he was identified as the 'bomber' on the 16/7.

Are you aware of any other victims having their homes searched after they were reported missing?

It is my understanding that Hussein's mum reported him missing on 8/7 or late 7/7. The police, asking her questions, discovered he had been to London with a group of 2 including MSK, on a train via Luton, having driven there in a car. Running MSK thorugh HOLMES ( the police database) turned up MSK as a suspected international terrorist. (There is a big question as to why the police were onto MSK and not M15. One of the reasons I am after an inquiry. Incompetence and compromised and politicised security services, thanks, Scarlett and Blair.)

On discovering none of his ( Hussein's) mates who he'd travelled to London with had been seen since 7/7/05, the police pursued the theory that here were possible suspects. The cars left at Luton belonging to said suspects were found to contain a) bombs ( the car with MSK and the ones from Beeston) b) a handgun ( Lindsey's car) . The 4 were considered strong possible suspects to be eliminated and the 4 suspects were then looked for on CCTV getting trains for central London to arrive before the bombs exploded, and also taking into account the time of the pay and display tickets. Station CCTV footage was siezed as here was a strong lead. Hussein's mum's call had provided the police with a lucky break. And his ID had been found on the bus.

Working backwards via the Hussein trail, the police knew what to look for to pursue this line of enquiry. Hussein, a tall bloke, wearing the clothes his mum had described him leaving in, with 2 friends, all heading to London in time to let off the bombs, probably meeting a 4th bomber on the way, since there had been 4 bombs. CCTV was siezed from Luton and the routes from Luton to central London. KX was already suspected as the starting point for all the bombers, a hypothesis which bloggers were suggesting within 24 hours of 7/7


So..They were indeed seen on CCTV with rucksacks, as has been shown. They were also seen at KX, seen boarding trains, all on CCTV , Hussein was seen wandering about before boarding a bus. Remains identified at the scenes revealed the decapitated, limbless remains of what had been fairly quickly assumed to be suicide bombers ( from their fatal injuries and the placement and detonation of the bombs on the floor) . Forensic examination of the DNA of Khan, Hussein and Tansweer identified them pretty quickly. The 4th identification was taken from the car, with the gun, found at Luton, containing a 4th man, Lindsey, seen on CCTV at Luton and on CCTV heading to London and in KX with the other 3 bombers, Hussein's mates. Lindsey was known to the police as a criminal. His DNA from his remains found on the Piccadilly line train matched DNA found in the car he had been seen getting out of. His DNA from the car and at th escene also matched his DNA form personal effects at his home where he lived with his wife.

At least 2 of the bombers carried Khan's credit cards, seesm MSK was keen to be identified and famous as the lead bomber, therefore made sure the trail would lead posthumously to him. This does not mean, as you stupidly say on your website, that MSK managed to be in 3 places at once.

Suspects in a mass murder case will have their homes searched, yes, Prole. Deal with it.

I have said many times on my blog and in the media what I think about the 2 official Govt. reports so I can only assume you are having a particularly clueless day today Prole and have forgotten. I am getting bored with typing and am going outside so you will have to re-read, I am not repeating it all over again.

Re. ''They'' - it is perfectly clear to the non-paraniod loon reader what I am saying, so I suggest you calm down and have a read again.

As to Bigfish, I asked him to PM me so he we could speak could verify what i said as he saw fit to call me a liar. He didn't take up the offer, and nor did you, when I made the same offer to you. At the time you said pompously that you thought all discussion should be in the public doman. (Now I note that you have a private discussion forum on your website.) I see no threats being made to either of you. Perhaps you shoudl see your GP about all this paranoia thing? It's all rather starting to add up, isn't it? What do your family and frinds think? Have they noticed changes in you since 7/7 and your new hobby/obsession?

As we can see all too clearly from your repeated lies and pathetic wriggling evasions, you'd rather continue to post up unsubstantiated nonsense that corroborates your offensive lie that the mass-murdering bombers were ''innocent''. To this end, you are highly selective, lazy in your research, inaccurate, apparently clinically paranoid, and I note , still unable to answer Ed's question. Keep on posting, Prole, for it reveals to a far larger audience than your conspiralooon blog what a steaming pile of half-baked bullshit the July 7 Truth pointless enterprise really is. And that, in these days of wild rumours that feed extremists sense of victimhood and grievance with such appalling results , can only be a good thing.

 

[Prole]

So BK I take it that you don't share the view expressed by Phillip Russell's father that the error in the train time "raised concerns about the accuracy of the rest of the report" then?

Your blog was very quiet about the announcement by John Reid, surprisingly so, given your ability to pontificate on such a wide variety of issues.

Given that Mr Russell lost his son that day can he expect support from you or KCU in asking about the accuracy of the rest of the report?

As for bigfish:

BK: What facts do you want, truth-twister, truth-seeker?

Your call, and soon, or I will expose you for what you are. You picked the wrong person to call a liar.

He was hardly calling you a liar, BK, he just expressed an opinion you didn't like:

Bigfish: On the one hand, you want us to believe all you say. But, on the other hand, you're unable to support your assertions with any facts.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

You don't scare me BK with your assertions that I am some kind of 'loony' for questioning whether we have been told the truth. Nor with your unkind opinions which you express so well. I have told Ed and I will tell you and Jaed and Bob the Lost and the rest, I won't be bullied or censored for saying what I think no matter how unpopular those views are.

The J7 Truth Campaign forum now has over 100 members, amongst whom clear thoughtful voices of intelligence and humanity ring clear.

 

[Badger Kitten]

So BK I take it that you don't share the view expressed by Phillip Russell's father that the error in the train time "raised concerns about the accuracy of the rest of the report" then?

Your blog was very quiet about the announcement by John Reid, surprisingly so, given your ability to pontificate on such a wide variety of issues.

Given that Mr Russell lost his son that day can he expect support from you or KCU in asking about the accuracy of the rest of the report?

As I have explained many many many many many many times KCU is a survivor support group not a campaign group. It is non political. It is there for support and information not campaigns. Campaigning publicly, talking to th emedia and being interested in politics is something *some *survivors do; to make a private support group publicly political could put off people joining when the primary, only reason for the group's existence is to share information and to support each other. Many people do not want to be in the media and to publicly campaign, they want to get on with their lives, and one of the reasons why some do not speak out publicly is the existence of people like you, and other conspiracy theorists who attack and rant on in meetings and insinuate and lie and peddle lies. Some of us do speak out, and we have quietsupport from many survivors and families and members of the public. I am not going to say whom, or which bereaved families I am in direct contact with, nor whom otgher campaigners are in direct contact with, who has signed letters to the Home Secretary, who has had private meetings and so on, because it is none of your damn business. It is a private matter.

Please read that several times and remember it if you can. I am rather bored of repeating myself to you.

My blog was quiet this week because a) I have said everything I want to say about the official report already - NOTE THE FACT THAT I AM CAMPAIGNING FOR A PUBLIC INQUIRY - SEE SUNDAY TIMES, DAILY MIRROR, BBC TV AND RADIO, ASIAN NETWORK, BBC WORLD SERVICE, ITN, CHANNEL 4, REUTERS, USA TODAY, FOX NEWS, ABC, CNN, ASSOCIATION FRANCE PRESSE, ASAHI SHIMBO, JAPANESE TV, GUARDIAN, OBSERVER, ie. the entire world media, and on my blog for the last 8 months. And to two Home Secretarys and Tessa Jowell.

I have been very very busy at work and have taking a break from campaigning for a few days for the sake of my health since I have done little else for months and I need a break after the annoiversary, which I observed privately with fellow-survivors and avoided the media. And I repeat, I have said hundreds of times what I think about the official reports, publicly, in person, in my blog, in the national and international media and it should be obvious, even to you, that i am campaigning for a public inquiry, with other survivors and bereaved people from all 4 sites. Many of whom you will have seen on the news. If you take your head out your arse and have a look. I do not consider that I should need to justify or explain my position to murderer-excusing proven liars.

For someone so obsessed with July 7 you do seem to have a selective memory. Especially as you repeatedly visit my blog.

Have you seen the doctor about the sudden apparent lapses of memory or selective amnesia as well as the rampant paranioa and obsession with exonerating mass murderers?

Because you might be advised to.

 

[Badger Kitten]

I note that you do not respond to my points in which I amswered you about the investigation at length, nor to the editor's oft-repeated questions.

What a hypocrite.


'You want us to believe you - but you can't support your assertion that the bombers were innocent and that the investigation is a ''travesty'' with any facts, can you?

Can you, Prole?


No.

Ha. Pathetic.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Let us remind ourselves once again of Prole's intellectual dishonesty/cowardice.

12th May, Prole declared the bombers to be totally innocent and the victims of a "travesty of justice."

Perhaps you might now explain the process by which you were able to discount every piece of evidence available at the time - like the DNA samples, eye witness testimony etc - in preference to some side-issue emails "verified" by hopelessly biased, unskilled, unqualified fellow loons?

On the 12th May you made an emphatic claim. You weren't 'asking questions' or 'seeking the truth.' You told us that the bombers were completely and utterly innocent of all crimes and that the whole thing was a "travesty of justice."

And all that was based on some emails which you knew had not been verified to any level of accuracy.

Why do you ignore all the evidence that they were bombers, Prole?
Why do you ignore all the answers about the investigation that I and others have shared with you? The evidence which has been publicly shared?
Because you have an agenda, don't you? An agenda you made clear on 12th May.

Now what about the conspiracy theorists, like Keith M*********, contacting Hussein's father and telling him his son was innocent?

Do you support the actions of self-declared "truth seekers" in calling the bereaved parents of the suicide bombers?
Have you contacted any bereaved parents yourself?
Do you think it is wrong to contact the bereaved parents of the bombers?
If so...
Have you complained about this, remonstrated with the person who did so?
Have you complained to the BBC about the meeting between the survivor and Hussein's father?
Why did you claim the Thameslink emails were verified by independent researchers? When they weren't?


Any answers, any time soon?

 

[Badger Kitten]

Transcript of Tanweer video. Will post also on Tanweer vid thread.

 

[detective-boy]

Prole, when the police announce that someone has been murdered and they have the DNA that enables them to identify the killer, I don't assume they are lying.... <snip before long, compelling list of evidence>

Yeah, but, no, but, yeah ... but they got the train time wrong ...

 

[detective-boy]

Running MSK thorugh HOLMES ( the police database) turned up MSK as a suspected international terrorist.

You should be aware that HOLMES is NOT a single system as you may imagine. It stands for Home Office Large Major Enquiry System and its second generation (HOLMES2) is now in use. It is the name of the SYSTEM on which a new "account" is started for each murder or other enquiry. Each account is searchable within itself and across any other accounts which are linked. Many accounts can be linked together and cross searched but by no means all are.

This means that there is a huge amount of information in HOLMES accounts around the country which is not searchable unless someone knows it may be there and goes to the operator of the relevant account and asks for a search to be done. It is a major, systematic intelligence problem for the police service. In theory at the end of every major enquiry an intelligence digest of all the relevant searchable data is created and typed into the wider intelligence database (CRIMINT in the Met). Other forces have addressed the problem and begun to make all HOLMES accounts cross searchable as a matter of routine.

 

[Prole]

Your obnoxious peppering of insults and smears BK within your replies actually prevents me from bothering to read them. If a person doesn't speak politely to me then I usually ignore them or don't bother responding. Same goes for Ed's vitriolic and abusive questioning of me as if this thread which is supposed to discuss the narrative is some kind of kangaroo court. If you genuinely want my views, ask politely.

I am slightly flattered by the lengths you go to to respond to me, a so-called 'conspiraloon', which seeme to imply that on some level you do take me seriously. Your response no doubt will be that I threaten the call for a public inquiry, which again suggests that somewhere we are taken seriously. Well, we shoud be, we are a serious campaign. With serious questions that remain unanswered.

The recent anouncement by John Reid that the narrative was inaccurate can only boost these calls, as does Phillip Russell's father's comment. I noticed you hadn't blogged about this important turnabout by Reid, yet you have so many words to say on so many subjects, even to the point of considering yourself somewhat knowledgeable on issues such as young Muslims and their radicalisation, Islam, terrorism etc etc.

Yet surprisingly silent on John Reid's statement. I hazard a guess that it may be because you would then have to echo the honest statement of Mr Russell who asks what else in the narrative is incorrect?

As for the rest of your's and Ed's questions, I can't be bothered to answer what are obviously loaded and fairly dishonest statements.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Yeah, but, no, but, yeah ... but they got the train time wrong ...

And now the train time has been rectified, what other evidence does Prole have for the bombers being 'innocent' and the victims of 'a travesty of justice?'

CCTV - she claims this is ''photoshopped'', but can provide no expertise for this. Teh video of Khan, which she claims is fake.

And, um...her ''intuition'' when ''something shifted'' on 7/7.

And, erm...the Peter Powers Visor exercise on paper ( see discussion nd expert rebuttals earlier upthread)

Tanweer driving a hire car not his own Mercedes ( well, why deprive your family of your Mercedes when you are gone? Knowing the police will sieze the bomb-filled car you leave after your suicide mission?

Her belief that ''Perpetrators of any kind of crime, let alone one of this magnitude, tend not to leave such an easy trail straight to them and their possible associates.''
Erm - but if you want to be a famous martyr, yes, you do. See posthumous video.s

The fact that the bus no 30 was diverted. And that the shocked driver walked seven miles to hospital. ( Clutching at rather offenisve slight straws by now)

The confusion over whether the Piccadilly line was 331 or 311 in its number, relating to an error in the station supervisors report on the day. This man sspent several hours underground helping the injured. If he made an error in his report of one digit, I am not surprised. Plus the train should have been 311but the delays on the system meant it wasn't as most trains were running late.

Aldgate: Reports of tiles flying up ''as if'' the bombs were under the trains. In fact the bombs were on the floor of the trains, the force of the explosion did indeed cause some tiles to fly up, and a hole to be torn in the floor surrounded by twisted metal. I have given evidence with someone who walked round it, in shock, for 3 minutes, staring at it, someone who fell down it, and someone who nursed a dead man who fell through it before he died. they all conform what the photos show: a bomb IN the train, ON the floor, not UNDER the train.

Danny Bidde is called an unreliable witness by Prole and her pals on her site. In fact, he was 18 inches, standing up, looking at MSK as he detonated the bomb in a bag, on the floor. He recognised Khan as someone he had seen on the train looking at him and fioddling with a bag before the catastrophic blast when MSK's face came up on TV - then found out later he was the bomber


Early muddles about the blast times and number of blasts are siezed upon as evidence of something odd - as is the blast knocking out the power, causing a power surge. Misreporting, muddled reporting is seized upon as evidence of a conspiracy. No, it's just inaccurate, rolling, multisourced reporting.

Why would Khan’s property have been at sites he was not otherwise forensically linked to? A simple answer would be that the other suspects were carrying his identification along with their own, but a further argument would be why were any of them bothering to carry identification at all?

D'oh! Because they wanted to be ID-ed as martyrs! Especially the instigator, Khan!
And finally, the debunked rumour of Israeli foreknowledge is trotted out, as is the myth of the Canary Wharf bomber shot dead by police which never happened.

And that's about it.

Anyone convinced? Anyone even bothering to wade through over 100 pages of Prole's evangelising and attempts to convert us?

The evidence HAS been released the facts ARE in the public domain, or enough of them to establish who were th eguilty parties. The inquiry demands, fpor me personally, are about why and how much was known and the response to and preparation for the attacks, and the apparent lack communication between agencies, and the seeming cause of radicalisation, and the analysis by the Govt. of the terror threat and whether it was downplayed for political reasons. But I can't set the terms of an inquiry, more's the pity.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Your obnoxious peppering of insults and smears BK within your replies actually prevents me from bothering to read them....

Translation: I can't answer the questions.

If a person doesn't speak politely to me then I usually ignore them or don't bother responding.. .

You've responded since May despite everyone calling you a conspiraloon.
Why so coy? Because you can't answer. There's nowhere to wriggle to, nowhere to hide, is there? Hiding behind your hankie because everyone is beign frightfully horrid is laughable.

I am slightly flattered by the lengths you go to to respond to me, a so-called 'conspiraloon', which seeme to imply that on some level you do take me seriously.

Angry enough to shoot down your lies like fish in a barrel, knowing how much they a) upset survivors b) damage the credibility of askign for a public inquiry, something I and bereaved and survivors have been campaigning for for months.

. Well, we shoud be, we are a serious campaign. With serious questions that remain unanswered.

You are nothing of the sort. Release the evidence that you are independent and agenda free! Answer the questions! Oh, you can't.

The recent anouncement by John Reid that the narrative was inaccurate can only boost these calls, as does Phillip Russell's father's comment. I noticed you hadn't blogged about this important turnabout by Reid, yet you have so many words to say on so many subjects, even to the point of considering yourself somewhat knowledgeable on issues such as young Muslims and their radicalisation, Islam, terrorism etc etc.

Already answered that point. But you can't face it, can you? Here it is again...

My blog was quiet this week because a) I have said everything I want to say about the official report already - NOTE THE FACT THAT I AM CAMPAIGNING FOR A PUBLIC INQUIRY - SEE SUNDAY TIMES, DAILY MIRROR, BBC TV AND RADIO, ASIAN NETWORK, BBC WORLD SERVICE, ITN, CHANNEL 4, REUTERS, USA TODAY, FOX NEWS, ABC, CNN, ASSOCIATION FRANCE PRESSE, ASAHI SHIMBO, JAPANESE TV, GUARDIAN, OBSERVER, ie. the entire world media, and on my blog for the last 8 months. And to two Home Secretarys and Tessa Jowell.

I have been very very busy at work and have taking a break from campaigning for a few days for the sake of my health since I have done little else for months and I need a break after the annoiversary, which I observed privately with fellow-survivors and avoided the media. And I repeat, I have said hundreds of times what I think about the official reports, publicly, in person, in my blog, in the national and international media and it should be obvious, even to you, that i am campaigning for a public inquiry, with other survivors and bereaved people from all 4 sites. Many of whom you will have seen on the news

Yet surprisingly silent on John Reid's statement. I hazard a guess that it may be because you would then have to echo the honest statement of Mr Russell who asks what else in the narrative is incorrect?

See everything I have ever said, in the news, on my blog, on TV,m on the radio, here, in meetings, in speeches, everywhere.

As for the rest of your's and Ed's questions, I can't be bothered to answer what are obviously loaded and fairly dishonest statements.

Right - here they are about to be posted, insult-free - one last time...


If you can't answer them - as I'm pretty sure you can't - then I suggest your theories and prtestations of the bombers innocence are redundant, and your campaign farcicical, and your position credibility free. Ok?

 

[Badger Kitten]

12th May, Prole declared the bombers to be totally innocent and the victims of a "travesty of justice."

Perhaps you might now explain the process by which you were able to discount every piece of evidence available at the time - like the DNA samples, eye witness testimony etc - in preference to some side-issue emails "verified" by non-independent, non-qualified, non-researchers?

On the 12th May you made an emphatic claim. You weren't 'asking questions' or 'seeking the truth.' You told us that the bombers were completely and utterly innocent of all crimes and that the whole thing was a "travesty of justice."

And all that was based on some emails which you knew had not been verified to any level of accuracy.

Why do you ignore all the evidence that they were bombers, Prole?
Why do you ignore all the answers about the investigation that I and others have shared with you? The evidence which has been publicly shared?
Is it because you have an agenda? An agenda you made clear on 12th May.

Now what about the ''truth seekers'' such as Keith M*********, contacting Hussein's father and telling him his son was innocent?

Do you support the actions of self-declared "truth seekers" in calling the bereaved parents of the suicide bombers?
Have you contacted any bereaved parents yourself?
Do you think it is wrong to contact the bereaved parents of the bombers?
If so...
Have you complained about this, remonstrated with the person who did so?
Have you complained to the BBC about the meeting between the survivor and Hussein's father?
Why did you claim the Thameslink emails were verified by independent researchers? When they weren't?


Any answers, any time soon?

 

[Badger Kitten]

Like asking, can't/won't answer, methinks, methinks, methinks.

 

[JHE]

we are a serious campaign.

 

[Loki]

The J7 Truth Campaign forum now has over 100 members, amongst whom clear thoughtful voices of intelligence and humanity ring clear.

To me it looks like 10 people on the forums, all happily agreeing with eachother and not ever questioning anything another member says.

There only seems to be one dissenter (named curiospiglet) whose point was all but ignored:

antagonist I don't see why you can't accept that SOME people become radicalised suicide bombers because they are furious about Iraq and Afghanistan, and what they see as a war against their people. and for me, that is even more reason to have a public inquiry.

I mean, there's the guy ( Tanweer) saying so, there's the US guy saying it.

I am a bit disappointed with this forum, I thought you wanted a public inquiry, but instead you seem to want to make out that the bombers were innocent and suicide bombing and radical islamists don't even exist!

Think that is well dodgey, personally

Do you accept that radical Islamicism, a political movement, does really exist, Antagonist, Kier, everyone else?

:blink:

In fact the only answer this person got was from you, and all you said was, well they got the train time wrong, there's a conspiracy, release the evidence etc. - you didn't even debate their point!

 

[Prole]

On 12/05/06 I wrote:

They caught the 7.40 Thameslink train from Luton which as we know was cancelled that day..so all the rest is a crock unless these 4 young men had teleporting abilities.

Quotes from the narrative:

How about Hasib buying a 9v battery in KX because ... it is possible (there are a lot of possibles, maybes and might haves in the narrative) that a new battery was needed to detonate the device, but this is only speculation at this stage.

Or

Another possibility is that he was unable to detonate his device with the original battery, but we have no further evidence at this stage (what 10 months after the events?)

Or

Tanweer is wearing white tracksuit bottoms at 04.54 but by 07.21 Tanweer is now wearing dark tracksuit bottoms. There is no explanation for this change at present.

Go read it for yourselves:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documen...uly-report.pdf

Then go read:

http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/

It is a travesty of justice, these men didn't do it.

"The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

Based on the 7.40 which John Reid has now had to change, so yes, based on the official report they didn't do it.

John Reid has been forced to adjust the train time to somehow get them to London, even that fails to add up.

Channel 4 News is now showing the effects of State Terrorism that has gone totally out of control. Is this connected to the events in London, yes I think so, but not in the way you think BK. The truth is important an incorrect analysis of the events in London can lead you to the wrong conclusions with what may turn out to be terrifying results.

There was no need for suicide-bombs BK, bombs placed in bags on the floor of carriages would suffice as a terrorist act. You believe in a theory of martyrs. BTW Only 2 of the 4 have been shown in so-called confession videos. 3 of the 4 faces in the CCTV image outside Luton are totally unidentifiable. What evidence have you SEEN that proves they were there?

I am angry and heartsick so I'm off.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

On 12/05/06 I wrote:


Based on the 7.40 which John Reid has now had to change, so yes, based on the official report they didn't do it.

...I am angry and heartsick so I'm off.

You're as mad as a box of frogs.

 

[Prole]

To me it looks like 10 people on the forums, all happily agreeing with eachother and not ever questioning anything another member says.

There only seems to be one dissenter (named curiospiglet) whose point was all but ignored:

antagonist I don't see why you can't accept that SOME people become radicalised suicide bombers because they are furious about Iraq and Afghanistan, and what they see as a war against their people. and for me, that is even more reason to have a public inquiry.

I mean, there's the guy ( Tanweer) saying so, there's the US guy saying it.

I am a bit disappointed with this forum, I thought you wanted a public inquiry, but instead you seem to want to make out that the bombers were innocent and suicide bombing and radical islamists don't even exist!

Think that is well dodgey, personally

Do you accept that radical Islamicism, a political movement, does really exist, Antagonist, Kier, everyone else?

:blink:

In fact the only answer this person got was from you, and all you said was, well they got the train time wrong, there's a conspiracy, release the evidence etc. - you didn't even debate their point!

Like this reply?

Err...yes, and I've never said I haven't. Although I have said many times that the July 7th Truth Campaign is not a campaign to exonerate those men. It's a pity that some people are seeing it that way. Are you seriously suggesting that simply on the basis of the existence of radical Islamicism, we should not bother looking at all the oddities in the Official Report of the London bombings and all the inexplicable flaws contained within it? The fact that MI5 were supposedly tailing these men who, if you believe the reports, could not have made it plainer that they were planning an attack? Khan reportedly managing to involve himself in about five other terrorist operations and yet nobody could have stopped it?

Have you read my last post in this topic? Bearing in mind that I do believe in extremism and extremists of all faiths and political views? I, too, am furious about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I assume you are also. Quite a lot of people in this country were. Do you believe yourself capable of doing such a thing in order to 'protest' about it? Can you not see the incongruity of it? These men - and bear in mind that two of them apparently felt so strongly about all this they haven't even apparently bothered making a similar video - committing such an act when they had never suffered the agony of seeing their own families and homes destroyed the way, say, Palestinians have? Look at my last post again.

They say 'You western citizens' in these videos. Yet they were western citizens, with the full knowledge of how the electoral system in this country worked. They speak in these videos like foreigners who had never set foot here. It's no good explaining this as 'They saw themselves as foreigners' because for an average of 20 or so years, each of them saw themselves as western citizens like the majority of us here.

Yes, young men get radicalised. But to such a degree that they would blow up innocent people who they knew were against this suffering that our government perpetuates? I am trying to apply a bit of logic here - and not logic that is based on the speculative assertion that these men were 'suicide bombers', where the only evidence to suggest this is the case are these videos, produced by the same people who the Official Report says didn't have any involvement in this event!

If you listen to the people who knew them speak of them, you would know that it cannot be dismissively said that they were harbouring hatred and nobody knew about it.
Nafeez Ahmed has said of the sections he had to blank out in his book:

"i can say that the first section concerns very significant and
specific information on the involvement of a longtime mi5 operative in
liaising with al muhajiroun members generally, and possibly financing
the london bombings specifically. the material was edited repeatedly
to reduce the risk of defamation, but even in its final form (in which
there are only reports and facts referred to), the risk was sufficient
enough for the lawyers to censor the material."

Are you not even going to entertain the possibility that their involvement in this may not be in the way we've been told?

The reason why we are campaigning for a truly independent inquiry, and if you have read through the material in these forums you will see it for yourself, is that there is not sufficient evidence in the public domain to back up the Official Report of how these bombings occurred, who perpetrated them and why. On another thread we were both contributing to on this forum, I pointed out how the Official Report can't even say what happened on these trips abroad that two of the men did. Even if it could, it still doesn't explain how Hasib Hussain came to be involved. As I've said before, when you look at these men in the context of who they were and how they lived, there is nothing about them that fits the profile of a 'suicide bomber'. Weigh this up against the fact that Muslim extremist groups exist. Whichever view carried the most weight, there is no concrete proof that these men, specifically, carried out these attacks.

Which is exactly why we are asking for an inquiry. If we had an end result in mind, eg what you seem to be suggesting, which is that we want these men exonerated, even though none of us knew them and have no benefit to them being either innocent or guilty - don't you think we would have something to lose by a fully independent inquiry, which does not invoke the Inquiries Act, thereby giving it as much scope as possible for giving us the truth? We want to know what happened. Pointing out there there is only speculation and a massive catalogue of errors in the Official Report - and our frustration at this being the case - does not equate with us wanting to 'make out that the bombers were innocent'. You seem frustrated that we are not readily accepting the guilt of these men. What does it matter to you either way who believes what at the moment? What should matter is that the truth comes out.

The fact that you call them bombers suggests that you've already decided that they're guilty, which makes me wonder why you would bother joining a forum that's trying to find the truth. Guilty until proven innocent? We're working from a starting point of not knowing either way. We're having to work with the few facts that we've got amid a mass of conjecture. Starting from the point that they're guilty and then working backwards isn't very objective.

Conspiracy theories abound when there are gaps in the accounting of an event, especially one like this. We are asking for those gaps to be closed. I am perfectly ready to believe that these four men committed this crime - when there is evidence to prove that they did it. At the moment, the Official Report tells us that the men entered Luton station and walked through the ticket barriers 7 minutes before they were photographed outside the station. It tells us that the men took a train which didn't run. It tells us that they took a route from Thameslink to King's Cross that doesn't make sense. It cites testimony from unreliable witnesses such as Richard Jones. It offers no evidence that the men met with known terrorists when abroad, only speculation. It states that it is not known what explosives were used, even though swabs were taken from victims on the day and supposedly sophisticated equipment was used to detect bomb fragments in the wreckage which should give results within hours....that's just a few of the anomalies.
If the public get the kind of inquiry we are asking for, these issues should hopefully be addressed and there will be no need for us to keep on voicing our concerns.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Prole there is so many flaws in that logic that it's painful.

 

[Loki]

I am angry and heartsick so I'm off.

hmm

 

[Badger Kitten]

Still no attempt to answer the questions despite repeated asking.

Arse proper kicked then. Bye Prole.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Prole, I've answered all your questions and refuted/answered almost all the so-called questions on your site.

Here, yet again, for posterity are the questions Prole refused to answer before flouncing...

Why do you ignore all the evidence that they were bombers, Prole? NO ANSWER, INSTEAD CLINGS TO WHAT SHE CALLS ANOMALIES EVEN WHEN THEY ARE REFUTED
Why do you ignore all the answers about the investigation that I and others have shared with you? NO ANSWER BUT OT APPEARS AN EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT HAS BEEN MADE IN THERE BEING A CONSPIRACY

The evidence which has been publicly shared? NO ANSWER EXCEPT WILFULLY REFUSING TO ACCEPT IT


Is it because you have an agenda? An agenda you made clear on 12th May. YES IN MY OPINION. AN AGENDA TO PROVE THE BOMBERS WERE INNOCENT

Now what about the ''truth seekers'' such as Keith M*********, contacting Hussein's father and telling him his son was innocent? NO ANSWER.CLAIMS THAT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE THIS - THEN IGNORES EVIDENCE WHILST COMPLAINING THAT A MEETING WITH A BEREAVED MAN AND A BOMBER'S FATHER WAS WRONG AND APPALLING.

Do you support the actions of self-declared "truth seekers" in calling the bereaved parents of the suicide bombers? NO ANSWER SEE ABOVE
Have you contacted any bereaved parents yourself? NO ANSWER
Do you think it is wrong to contact the bereaved parents of the bombers? WILL NOT SAY BUT SEEMS TO INFER THIS SEE BBC COMMENTS.
If so...
Have you complained about this, remonstrated with the person who did so? NO ANSWER.
Have you complained to the BBC about the meeting between the survivor and Hussein's father? NO ANSWER.
Why did you claim the Thameslink emails were verified by independent researchers? CLAIMS THEY WERE INDEPENDENT RESEARCHERS AS THEY WERE CONDUCTING 'RESEARCH' AS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. A WRIGGLE. When they weren't? THEY WERE NOT QUALIFIED NOR INDEPNDENT NOR OBJECTIVE. PROLE WILL NOT ANSWER THIS INSTEAD TELLS US TO CONTACT THAMESLINK OURSELVES.

Why do I bother? Because I and others more severely, permanently affected by 7/7 than me have spent months campigning for an independent inquiry, and her lies and nonsense bring the campaign into disrepute.They help to nurture the sense of victim hood and paranoia which is meat and drink to radicalised youth. Proof of this was provided, not only were th ebombers into conspiracy theories and videos, but checking out Muslim sites finds quite a few posters citing 7/7 conspiracies as evidence why ''the lying kuffirs had it coming''. Prole's site and beleifs are part of the problem. And as I and others are asking for an inquiry because we want to stop further bombings, she will continue to get it in the neck from me.

 

[jæd]

If the public get the kind of inquiry we are asking for, these issues should hopefully be addressed and there will be no need for us to keep on voicing our concerns.

I'm guessing the only inquiry that Prole would agree with would be one that she chairs herself, and releases cctv footage of the bombers from the moment that they start their car in Luton, follows them down the motorway and ends with them blowing themselves up. Oh, and has them loudly discussing why and how they produce the explostions...

 

[Badger Kitten]

No, she'd say all the CCTV was faked and the recordings were fake, or the men in the video weren't really Khan, Tamweer et al.

I doubt she'll be happy until Blair rips off his mask and thrashes his lizard tail going ''I'd have got away with it if it weren't for you meddling conspiraoons!'' And the crowd would shout ''Hurrah for Prole!'' and install her as Truth Queen Extrordinaire.