The 7/7 Report

[Prole]

What credibly-sourced, cross-checked evidence do you have that proves that official narrative is a "crock," Prole?

A brain is all you need to know it's a crock. Surely you don't want me to quote train times?

So .. let's pick one at random.

09.00 Hussain goes back into King's Cross station through Boots and then goes into W H Smith on the station concourse and it appears buys a 9v battery. It is possible that a new battery was needed to detonate the device, but this is only speculation at this stage.

(What stage? 10 months afterwards and they haven't figured out how the bombs were detonated yet?)

or earlier:

08.55 Hussain tried to contact the other three ... appears relaxed and unhurried.

(Are we supposed to forget that these were apparantly simultaneous suicide-bombers?)

 

[editor]

I'd say most of the legal system deals with suspicion. Hence a trial. Or an inquest. If you had fact you wouldn't need an inquest or a trial. Truly barbaric, no?

Reasonable suspicion. Public inquest, independent inquiry. Let the public be the judge of the facts as they are presented to us.

So how come you've already reached your conclusion about the existence of 'false flag operations' when you've absolutely zero facts to support that claim?

False Flag operation is what connected 7/7 and 911.

Back up this startling claim please.

 

[editor]

Surely you don't want me to quote train times?

You mean the letter supposedly sent to the guy with the talking terrier and fradulent charity, yes?

Who was this letter supposedly sent to again?

 

[Prole]

So how come you've already reached your conclusion about the existence of 'false flag operations' when you've absolutely zero facts to support that claim?
Back them up please.

How come you've already reached your conclusion when you've absolutely zero facts to support your claim that these young men were responsible? You have one CCYV of the 4 OUTSIDE London and the rest is based on the belief that you are being told the truth.

 

[editor]

How come you've already reached your conclusion when you've absolutely zero facts to support your claim that these young men were responsible?

Well, that and the DNA evidence and personal effects at the scene, of course.

And the fact that they don't appear to be on this planet any more.

But where do you think they are now if it wasn't them?
And who really set off the bombs?

PS Answer my question about the source of the timetable story please.

 

[Prole]

You mean the letter supposedly sent to the guy with the talking terrier and fradulent charity, yes?

Who was this letter supposedly sent to again?

It was posted on his website. It was sent to an independent researcher and verified by another independent researcher. We have copies with headers as you know.

Where is your proof that they got on a train at 7.40 and arrived at 8.23?

 

[Prole]

Well, that and the DNA evidence and personal effects at the scene, of course.

And the fact that they don't appear to be on this planet any more.

But where do you think they are now if it wasn't them?
And who really set off the bombs?

PS Answer my question about the source of the timetable story please.

And you know that this DNA evidence exists and has been independently verified, yes? You've seen these miraculous personal effects that were undamaged by the blast, yes? You know why Khan's were found at 3 scenes, yes? Or do you just believe what you are told to believe?

That is a massive act of trust in a system that has been proven to have framed innocent people in the past.

 

[laptop]

You were there? Or is this your own particular fantasy scenario?

It gets clearer and clearer.

Anyone trying to talk to you must use very simple con-cepts.

Paint a sim-ple picture.

Your poster boy talks about "sim-u-la-tion ex-er-cis-es".

I have or-gan-ised "sim-u-la-tion ex-er-cis-es".

I know how they work.

Have you?

Outside of your own head?

 

[editor]

It was posted on his website. It was sent to an independent researcher and verified by another independent researcher.

How was it verified? Was the ISP contacted?
Could you show me the process by which this email was "verified" please?

You see, I know how easy it is to forge email headers, so I'd like to know the qualifications of the person who supposedly verified it and how he can verify that the CONTENTS of the mail hadn't been altered.

And don't you think it just a tad odd that the only source for this letter should be the owner of a fradulent charity and a website that strongly suggests to me that he's not entirely holding a full deck?

 

[editor]

That is a massive act of trust in a system that has been proven to have framed innocent people in the past.

While you prefer to trust the author of a fraudulent charity with a talking terrier.

Why is that?

 

[editor]

Sorry. Did I mention that the guy with the talking terrier and the fradulent charity - you know the bloke who's the only source for this train timetable story - is also a UFO-nut with links to dodgy DVDs/CDs about "friendly aliens, hostile aliens, galactic battles and a plethora of other amazing revelations" on his site?

Oh, and did you know he's posted on Usenet pretending to be someone else?
Amazingly he claimed to 'download' a letter that he wrote on his own computer back on to his own computer - and then had to share the experience with usenet under a pseudonym!
http://tinyurl.com/h2sdz

 

[Prole]

While you prefer to trust the author of a fraudulent charity with a talking terrier.

Why is that?

Should I prefer to trust a mendacious murdering and lying government?

Anyway, I asked where was your proof that these 4 young men are guilty, apart from what you have been told.

We have the emails independently verified. I did post it on here but it was promptly deleted.

 

[editor]

We have the emails independently verified. I did post it on here but it was promptly deleted.

It appears you can't read - or maybe the question was too tricky for you. So let's try again:

How was this email verified? Was the ISP contacted?
Could you show me the process by which this email was "verified" please?

Who verified it?
What were his/her qualifications and how can you guarantee that the CONTENTS of the mail hadn't been altered?

I'm astonished that you clearly don't seem to have any problem at all with the highly dubious sole source of this story - why is that? Do you believe in UFOs too?

But seeing as you've given this claim such huge significance, so I'm sure you'll be able to give me the full details of how its authenticity was proved.

Err.. won't you?

 

[Prole]

Sorry. Did I mention that the guy with the talking terrier and the fradulent charity - you know the bloke who's the only source for this train timetable story - is also a UFO-nut with links to dodgy DVDs/CDs about "friendly aliens, hostile aliens, galactic battles and a plethora of other amazing revelations" on his site?

Oh, and did you know he's posted on Usenet pretending to be someone else?
Amazingly he claimed to 'download' a letter that he wrote on his own computer back on to his own computer - and then had to share the experience with usenet under a pseudonym!
http://tinyurl.com/h2sdz

That website has nothing to do with the person who received the emails or the person who verified the times. The 7.40 was cancelled that morning. The next train left at 7.42. Arrived too late to catch the underground trains.

Of course we wouldn't have to even discuss this if the cctv evidence from Luton & KX was released. Of course the police now claim that they don't want witnesses to know what they were wearing.

 

[editor]

That website has nothing to do with the person who received the emails or the person who verified the times.

Who received the emails then?

And - for the third time - please provide full details of the verification process, including names, qualifications, experience, impartiality etc, etc.

Can you do that, please?

 

[Prole]

It appears you can't read - or maybe the question was too tricky for you. So let's try again:

How was this email verified? Was the ISP contacted?
Could you show me the process by which this email was "verified" please?

Who verified it?
What were his/her qualifications and how can you guarantee that the CONTENTS of the mail hadn't been altered?

I'm astonished that you clearly don't seem to have any problem at all with the highly dubious sole source of this story - why is that? Do you believe in UFOs too?

But seeing as you've given this claim such huge significance, so I'm sure you'll be able to give me the full details of how its authenticity was proved.

Err.. won't you?

You didn't answer my question yet, have you verified independently or have you any proof other than what you have been told to believe that these 4 young men are guilty?

 

[Prole]

Who received the emails then?

And - for the third time - please provide full details of the verification process, including names, qualifications, experience, impartiality etc, etc.

Can you do that, please?

I tried to but you informed me that I couldn't post personal details so i'm hardly going to fall for that one again.

 

[editor]

You didn't answer my question yet, have you verified independently or have you any proof other than what you have been told to believe that these 4 young men are guilty?

My answer: I'm still waiting for the full story to emerge before leaping to fruitloop conclusions.

And now that I've answered your question, answer mine please.

How was this email verified? Was the ISP contacted?
Could you show me the process by which this email was "verified" please?

Who verified it?
What were his/her qualifications and how can you guarantee that the CONTENTS of the mail hadn't been altered?

 

[editor]

I tried to but you informed me that I couldn't post personal details so i'm hardly going to fall for that one again.

Nice wriggle.

But you can send me the name by PM (privacy guaranteed), but I'm sure there's no problem with you sharing the person's quaifications and explaining the process by which the emails were "verified" beyond doubt and how they can guarantee that they had not been altered in any way.

 

[Prole]

Nice wriggle.

But you can send me the name by PM (privacy guaranteed), but I'm sure there's no problem with you sharing the person's quaifications and explaining the process by which the emails were "verified" beyond doubt and how they can guarantee that they had not been altered in any way.

I don't have to do that, it will be on our website soon for everyone to check.

Although I'm pretty certain you'd find a way of discrediting it.
How about some proof from you that these young men are guilty? With the evidence that has met with similar criteria you insist on for mine?

 

[squeegee]

My answer: I'm still waiting for the full story to emerge before leaping to fruitloop conclusions.

How does it emerge? Out of a hat? You need to demand the full story. Hence law, hence public inquiry.

And Editor, if you're going to read into what I write and infer your own conclusions how can you criticise me? False flag is what connected these operations, as in suspicion of false flag.

There is no proof. Getting sidetracked on train timetables, photographs etc is not the point. The point is we have a right to ask these questions as a society, which is why we have courts of law.

And when governments conspire it is the people who must demand this right to ask these questions if there is any suspicion or doubt.

The truth does not emerge. It is revealed. And someone has to do the revealing.

The questions are based on reasonable doubt and nothing here has lessened that doubt, in fact, in some cases, it has confirmed it, since it has confirmed how some people are so easily tricked into denying what is staring right in front of them.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Some of us are campaigning for an independent inquiry. If you want to help with that, stop trying to hi-jack it with stupid conspiraloonery nonsense.

You wonder why I have come down so hard on you people all year? Because it was crucial that genuine calls for an independent inquiry, to learn lessons and save lives, were distanced from the cacophony of conspiraloonery.


You wonder why no single survivor or family of the victims has ever shown the slightest interest in the conspiraloon sites, in your ''support'' ?

Because you are poison to the campaign. No person in their right mind has any time for your wilful determination to ask endless questions, pick holes in multi-sourced rolling news accounts and witness testimony, scrabble about until you find one anomaly and make it into a conspiracy. Because it is clear that you have an agenda.
On first glance it seems reasonable, if somewhat eccentric - until you dig deeper and find anti-semitic burblings, ludicrous drivel about ''cover ups'' , Masons, Israelis,New World Orders, and how '' the bombs were under the trains'', or never there at all, and '' the bombers were inncocent''.

It is bollocks, and it is offensive. It is NOT ''independent research'' and ''truthseeking''; it is peddling of a particular world-view, a pernicious agenda, a type of false fundementalism where Everything is a Giant Lie and the world is run by shadowy sinister forces that you alone can see.

Yes, the world is full of people seeking power, influence, fame and money, life is full of of cock-ups and cover-ups, and bad judgement, and yes, the world contains terrorists and twisted ideaologies where murder is justified and wickedness plotted. Grow up. Things are nuanced, there are shades of grey, there is doubt and confusion and disagreement. It is not a case of The Truth vs. All Lies. Goodies and Baddies. In that way of thinking lies madness. Life is not a fairy tale where the hero battles through to win in the end, whatever George Bush says, whatever you think. I wish you conspiracy theorists would let go of whatever it is that makes you do this, your Jungian hero archetype, your Neo from the Matrix fantasises, or whatever it is you're doing this for, and allow the thought to filter through that perhaps you, and Alex Jones, and the ''truthseeker'' community are unlikely to be greeted as heroes for your efforts, but are instead viewed as obsessives, paranoids, who cling to a comforting black and white binarised worldview that is only appropriate for children.

And ask whether your twisted ideaologies are actually part of the problem, not the solution. Do you know how many stupid conspiracy theories are flying around, and the damage they do? Did you know that the bombers of July 7th were right into them? Can't you see how you are part of the bloody problem? How little you help me, and people like me, who do want to ask genuine questions, driven by a need to try to stop what happened to us, happening to others, and who are terrified of being lumped in with you and dismissed as traumatised cranks?

There are plenty of reasons to ask for an independent inquiry, and a proper, broader examination of the issues raised - to examine how these young men were radicalised, how many feel like them, whether our tactics are working, whether police and Special branch and M15 and M16 are working together effectively, whether intelligence has been politicised, whether communication has broken down, to have an important debate about the issues that affect us all - the questions of freedom and fear, of liberty and security, and to get to the bottom of the inconsistencies in the official events about whether the bombers acted alone and how much was known about them pre-7/7.

I dare say I will now be lambasted for censorship, told I am part of the Government psy-ops COINTELPRO team, get yet more hate mail, informed that it not up to me to set the terms of the debate, that it is your right to ask questions. Whatever. I have heard it all before.

But can I ask you one thing? Stop saying you are engaged in 7/7 investigations '' on behalf of those dead and injured, on behalf of the survivors.'' Just stop saying that. You aren't, and if you wanted to help, you would not carry on as you are doing. Since you are determined to carry on with this nonsense, can I ask you as ''truthseekers'' allegedly committed to ''justice'' to respect this truth, and to behave fairly.

You do not speak for me or for other survivors. You do not help the survivors campaign for an inquiry. You could do the decent thing, and drop your claims that you are in some way trying to help. Because you are not. You are not helping at all.

Thanks


edited for typos

 

[Badger Kitten]

Today's Times: Family of 77 bomber struggles to understand

His [Tanweer's] family remained oblivious to his radicalisation though his uncle, Tahir Pervaiz, tells how when Tanweer arrived in Pakistan in November 2004, ostensibly to visit relatives, he was carrying a photograph of Osama bin Laden in his wallet.

Mr Pervaiz described how he tried to stop Tanweer from meeting two outlawed groups but his nephew would lie about going out to play cricket and “not come back”.

The official reports into the 7/7 attacks insist there was no foreign mastermind involved in the plot, though those who witnessed Tanweer and Khan during their four-month stay in Pakistan, which included time at a jihad training camp, suspect that the pair were helped there in their terrorist plans.

Learning more about what the pair did in Pakistan is, say survivors of 7/7, one of the main reasons why there should be an independent inquiry.

More

 

[detective-boy]

Sorry Editor, but that conclusively proves that there were "walk through" excercises and that it was not, as you have continually maintained, all done on paper.

No, it doesn't. You haven't got the faintest idea what you are fucking talking about.

If you are interpreting "walk through" as meaning people were actually out there "walking through" something you are more stupid that you already appear. In crisis management terms it simply means a theoretical exercise, with information fed in either by briefing or on paper or, in these more technological days, in the form of video and audio clips, photographs, staged telephone calls into the exercise room or whatever. No-one else outside the company (and probably outside the room,though sometimes other people in the organisation are briefed to ring in with bits of information, or tasked to do something to add to the realism to the exercise) would have the faintest idea what was happening. It certainly wouldn't involve any input from the emergency services before, during or after the exercise.

They are held all the time. The identity of the company is entirely irrelevant, every major company does them.

 

[detective-boy]

In the event, the senior staff and peter power were able to switch very rapidly to the real, real-time situation and actually saved many lives.

You got a source for this entirely imaginary bollocks?

They saved no fucking lives at all. All that happened was his client company actually dealt with a real sceanrio instead of an imaginary one and practised their own, internal procedures for real with the benefit of a consultant present throughout.

All they would have done is practice contingency arrangements for having to move out of their premises in central London and / or accounted for all their staff and / or other disaster recovery and business continuity arrangements.

 

[detective-boy]

And this guy surely can't be dismissed as a loon. Can he?

On the basis of his first paragraph ... yes.

 

[detective-boy]

But all we get is a private company with a private client saying it's in their interest to keep these facts secret.

If it was my fucking client I wouldn't reveal their identity either ... all that would achieve is no-nothing fucking morons like you harassing them.

 

[detective-boy]

But you shout and scream and insult and shout and scream some more. It really is savage, vulgar and obscene and if you did that in a debate with me in front of an audience (unless the audience were a bunch of drunken hooligans) YOU would look foolish and lose the argument. Your style is made for Nicky Campbell, Littlejohn and the other reactionaries.

But here in the safe confines of a bulletin board you can be as abusive as you like.

This response is the same on this bulletin board as if it was in a pub.

"You're a fucking moron, mate. Go bother someone else."

Followed, if you don't take the hint, thirty seconds later by "Which bit of fuck off don't you understand?"

Happy now? No bulletin board discrimination here.

 

[detective-boy]

It's totally my business. I travel on the tube daily. I have a right to know and so does everyone who lives in London and worries they might be caught in another outrage.

I carry out crisis management exercises like this regularly for a number of clients. They frequently include scenarios similar to 7 July. Do you have a right to know who they are too?

DO YOU FUCK.

 

[detective-boy]

Even if the client is private how would such a scenario not involve liasing with LU senior staff when dealing with a possible terrorist attack on the LU?

Its. Called. Pretend.

I'm beginning to think you really are more stupid than Prole and zArk ...

Note to self: Ring local primary school and remind them to make sure they contact the Met. Office to ensure the kids playing clouds in the summer play get it right ...