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SWP says vote Muslim Brotherhood!

citizenship not quite the same as any particular religious group now is it?
So what? How does make the labour party represent people qua workers? How does it differentiate between the MBs appeal and labours? (in the shit terms that you've offered it anyway - what are you so relentlessly crap?) Qua qua quack.
 
I never said vote lib-dem either, if you got that impression from my article that said that this is the case, then i'm very sorry. I only wrote that because i had to and thought it.
 
And have you bothered to inform yourself about this before offering your opinion? Need i fucking ask? Do you really never bother doing that?

I'm not rushing to condemn the Egyptian socialists from thousands of miles away on the basis of scant knowledge of the situation. What makes you an authority on the MB?
 
I'm not rushing to condemn the Egyptian socialists from thousands of miles away on the basis of scant knowledge of the situation. What makes you an authority on the MB?
No one said that doling some background research automatically makes you an 'authority' - i said that doing some background research would be helpful. Do you disagree? If not, why not then do it before commenting further?
 
New statement from RS - the fudge is to now call for the elections to be postponed and for a boycott if they're not. You can see the lines being drawn behind this.


In the light of current developments we raise the following to the top of our demands:

1. The re-trial of Mubarak and the symbols of his regime, including the military council fortheir crimes against the Egyptian people before and after the revolution and even today,in front of civil revolutionary courts formed by a law passed by parliament

2. We call on all revolutionary and national forces and the great Egyptian people to mobilise in the streets of Egypt to call for the application of the Political Exclusion law3. No presidential elections until the Political Exclusion law is implemented and we call on the masses to boycott the elections if the law is not implemented

 
No one said that doling some background research automatically makes you an 'authority' - i said that doing some background research would be helpful. Do you disagree? If not, why not then do it before commenting further?
You could just get on the blower to Egypt. I'm sure they'd be gagging to hear the results of your background research.
 
I notice the prof is putting this latest statement around without noting the difference from what the other prof said about supporting the MB.

(Modern proletarian politics at it's working class best)
 
A huge amount of industry in egypt is owned and run by the military (specifically, by senior officers), as part of the deal which saw a major reduction of the size of the armed forces after '73. Intriguing the RS have zero to say about that.
And baffling, since their revolution cannot possibly be considered complete until the military's power is broken, for once and for all
 
April 6th movement jumps for MB. How high is the next question.

Not high in the sense that they've attached a load of conditions, but very high in the sense that these conditions are unlikely to be tested until after the election, so in practical terms Im not sure there is much difference between this conditional support and unconditional support. All they've done is add slightly more pressure to the MB to form a broad and inclusive government after victory. But there was already plenty of pressure to do that, and the MB have not done much during or since the uprising to give people much faith they will go down this route.

April 6th's new stance appears to be based on the previous one. The previous plan, which earlier in June appeared to be backed by various protest movements and 3rd, 4th & 7th place candidates Sabbahi (neo-nasserist), Fattouh (ex-MB) and Ali (lawyer-activist), called for Shafiq to be disqualified, and for serious consideration to be given to having an unelected presidential council to take charge while some stuff is sorted out (such as the constitution). The makeup of this presidential council was along the lines of being comprised of Sabbahi, Fattouh, Ali & ElBaradei.

I believe the court verdict on Shafiq is due on Thursday, and I doubt that much hope exists that the verdict will eliminate Shafiq. There is another matter being considered at the same time that could result in the dissolution of parliament.

So the April 6th new stance is to back Morsi (MB), and to hope that upon winning he leaves his party post, appoints Sabbahi & Fattouh as vice-presidents, and ElBaradei as prime minister.

Sabbahi has been getting along especially badly with the MB as far as public statements go, and seems to have deliberately kept distance from them up to this point. Its rather unclear whether he will hop onboard after the vote, or stay out of power and concentrate on further building a movement. A story even went around that he had met Shafiq, but I think this has been denied and certainly doesn't fit well with his attempts to be seen as genuinely in tune with the aims of the revolution.

I see that the Tunisian Ennahda movement founder has been to Egypt to talk to various parties, attempting to promote the coalition/unity approach to power and constitution-writing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/12/muslim-brotherhood-share-power-egypt

http://allafrica.com/stories/201206120077.html
Ex-contender Hamdeen Sabahi denounced what he called an organised campaign against him and the rumours spread by the Muslim Brotherhood and Mohamed Mursi's campaign.
During a meeting with Sheikh Rachid Al-Ghannouchi, founder of Ennahda Movement in Tunisia, Sabahi stated he will not support Mursi or Ahmed Shafiq in the imminent runoff.
Sabahi praised the Tunisian revolution and especially Ennahda Movement for not seeking to monopolize power after the revolution.
Al-Ghannouchi stressed the importance of Islamic national cooperation, stressing that both Tunisia and Egypt need a coalition ruling where power is not in the hands of one person or party.
Sabahi welcomed a Tunisian delegation headed by Al-Ghannouchi at his campaign headquarters to discuss the status quo in Egypt and the future of the revolution in light of the runoff between Mursi and Shafiq.
 
Thanks. April 6th founders seem to largely be well educated, internet savvy types whose ideas about freedom are probably most influenced by the fine words & myths of the global elite community & prevailing economic structures. Far more likely than average to support ElBaradei, to win a nobel prize or to get their face on the cover of a foreign magazine. I think it was one of them visiting & reaching out to the USA years before the uprising that was featured in the wikileaked state department memo that was rather dismissive of their political relevance at the time.

But this impression is based on the profiles of a mere handful of their founders, and I don't know how much broader their support is on the ground. They were pretty well organised at crucial moments early on, but since they were one of the groups to became darlings of our medias 'Facebook revolution' narrative I find it hard to estimate what support for them specifically was like.

Certainly they started off some years ago by backing workers in an industrial dispute, so my ElBaradei-tastic characterisation might be just a little too crude. Not the easiest time to judge how radical groups actually are or could become since the regime remaining in place makes even moderates adopt language that can sound like exciting fighting talk to us. But I suspect that if they were in charge the resulting policies would be of the familiar variety that have dominated the 'free' world for decades, and we'd be more likely to compare the Egyptian revolution to one of the colour revolutions. Not likely to happen since the political mix in Egypt is not exactly conducive to this, and the size of the vote for the 3rd place neo-nasserist Sabbahi may demonstrate the feebleness of support for internationalist rhetoric in Egypt compared to nationalist sentiments.

But even Sabbahi has acknowledged that his policies would involve markets, so in this key area I might group Egypt in with so many other countries in that our likely fate in terms of economic policy & political direction is rather strongly connected to whats happening to globalisation, neo-liberalism, etc. Mind you, Egypt's history does tend to suggest that possible for them to realign themselves away from the USA group and towards Russia, South America, India and/or others. But I suppose this possibility leads us straight back to the military regime and the USA being prepared to sacrifice the head to save the body.
 
I'm still struggling with contradictions between descriptions of April 6th being pro-labour and the stuff in my previous post. Perhaps I've made too many assumptions about what ElBaradei camp stand for beyond removing the regime and reform, or perhaps there are very real contradictions or naivety going on.

Anyway I was trying to learn more and then I found this and decided to abandon attempts to understand the full political dynamic for now. The story may yet turn out to be bollocks, so I won't bother parping out the possible explanations that have sprung to my mind just yet. At this moment the english-language twitter reaction is mostly WTF?

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/islamic-jihad-announces-support-shafiq-runoff
A number of Islamic Jihad leaders announced Tuesday that they will support Ahmed Shafiq, Hosni Mubarak’s last prime minister, in the presidential runoff against the Muslim Brotherhood’s Mohamed Morsy.
They also announced that the movement will launch a political party called Democratic Jihad.
Sabra Ibrahim, deputy founder of the party, told Al-Masry Al-Youm that the leaders announced their support for Shafiq out of fear that the state would be transformed from a civil state to a theocracy headed by the Muslim Brotherhood’s supreme guide if Morsy wins.
Yasser Saad, an Islamic Jihad leader, said that the civil state represented by Shafiq is the opposite of the theocratic state the Brotherhood desires.
 
Another important alliance teases at coming to fruition:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...lBaradei-mull-launch-of-broadbased-revol.aspx

First-round presidential candidate Hamdeen Sabbahi and reform campaigner and founder of the newly-established Constitution Party Mohamed ElBaradei, met Monday evening to discuss the potential for creating a broad umbrella group to unite pro-revolution political forces.
While several meetings have been held by political figures for the same cause, most notably by "revolutionary presidential candidates" Sabbahi, Abdel Moneim Aboul-Fotouh, Khaled Ali, and Abul-Ezz El-Hariri, this is the first meeting held between Sabbahi and ElBaradei.
In an attempt to bring together different political and revolutionary forces by establishing a "popular current," the two announced their intention to build a movement that would ensure the continuance of the revolution. The two most popular pro-revolution leaders restated that it is an effort to ensure that the main demands called for at the onset of the 25 January Revolution—Bread, Freedom, Social Justice and national dignity are fulfilled.
More pressing issues were also discussed, including the Political Disenfranchisement Law that will be ruled on by the High Constitutional Court on Thursday, in addition to the current impasse over the Constituent Assembly, tasked with drafting the constitution.

I wonder who decided ElBaradei was one of the two most popular pro-revolution leaders. ElBaradei has avoided subjecting himself to electoral testing, whereas Sabbahi's support was well demonstrated at the ballot box. So I assume ELBaradei popularity is being judged by his popularity within certain 'circles that matter', and his ability to have acted in the past as a force that could unite some of the protest movements. Either way we have, perhaps for the first time since the uprising began, signs of a non regime, non-MB potent force that can get support from more than one base and isn't headless. And one thats so far err'd on the side of not tainting themselves by association with others who may be accused of betraying the revolution.

I wait with interest to see which configuration of groups final emerges from all this, and whether they end up with any hands on power or have to do it the very hard way.
 
Meanwhile, a 14 year old daughter has described Tahrir Square on the 2nd of June as "breathtakingly beautiful". This, despite being pushed by thousands of people and fearful she would lose her mum.
 
I've gone on too much this evening but I should make clear that Sabbahi and ElBaradei have teamed up before, as they were both part of that National Assembly for Change campaign umbrella that was setup in 2010. Sabbahi and many others were not on my radar till recently, so assume that when Im talking about new potential alliances, I mean new for this electoral politics (& potential post-election protest) phase of things.
 
Hmmmm, not a very encouraging sign, brought to you by the regime that doesn't tend to do subtle or encouraging.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...ispy-TV-ad-continues-to-stir-controversy.aspx

A foreign-looking man walks into a coffee shop and joins three young Egyptian patrons. One of the latter mentions a reported conspiracy against the army that she overheard on the metro. A close-up shot then shows the foreigner texting what he has heard to a third party. The forty-second video ends with the message: "Every word has a price; A word can save a nation."
This is a scene from a controversial advertisement aired on Egyptian state television on Thursday evening cautioning Egyptians against relaying sensitive information to foreigners, suggesting that the latter could be foreign spies hungry for information.
Tourism Minister Mounir Fakhry Abdel-Nour told Ahram Online that he had personally asked Information Minister Ahmed Anis to stop airing the advertisement on Thursday. Abdel-Nour described the ad as "deeply offensive."
Abdel-Nour went on to state that he did not know why the advertisement had been produced at this time, or who was behind it, but expressed the belief that it had "largely backfired in the face" of whoever had produced it.
Mostafa believes the main objective of the advertisement is to smear the image of Egyptian revolutionaries. She pointed to the banner behind the activists portrayed in the video that reads: "Bread, freedom, social dignity" – a defining slogan of Egypt's 25 January Revolution.
Mostafa also believes the ad is directed at foreign journalists in the country, so that "no one will be able to bear witness to the crises we will face following the elections." She believes that a "much larger crackdown will take place against revolutionaries and reporters following the elections, regardless of whether the latter are foreign or Egyptian."
 
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