SWP says vote Muslim Brotherhood!

[audiotech]

to avoid run-ins with the hr department here, you should stop associating with ne'er-do-wells like articul8.

They're not on the employees side, so I'll remove the smilie [#87].

 

[articul8]

you're really on the fucking ball tonight. first you ask if i've denied something i didn't mention and now you've noticed i didn't address it when i asked if you were thick.

Someone else raised it, and you conspicuously failed to respond with a denial/admission, and then when I pulled you up on it rather than respond you started taking pops at me.

Would explain your politics a bit if you'd been to a prep school - anyway, sorry for the derail. As you were with the Muslim Brotherhood...

 

[articul8]

They're not on the employees side, so I'll remove the smilie [#87].

Is that aimed at me? How do you work that one out?

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone else raised it, and you conspicuously failed to respond with a denial/admission, and then when I pulled you up on it rather than respond you started taking pops at me.

Would explain your politics a bit if you'd been to a prep school - anyway, sorry for the derail. As you were with the Muslim Brotherhood...

This has been discussed a number of times before. I am no longer interested in what you believe about my education, I simply note you seem sufficiently curious to attempt a derail of this thread.

 

[articul8]

Not at all - why would I want to derail the thread. Closet SWP? Or secret imam?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not at all - why would I want to derail the thread. Closet SWP? Or secret imam?

There you go again. I don't think you're closet swp as despite my poor opinion of the swappies, they do have some standards

 

[articul8]

badoom-tish!

 

[teqniq]

Maybe this is worthy of it's own thread but seeing as how Turkey got mentioned on this one in relation to an Islamic government and what it might mean for Egypt:

In Turkey the right to free speech is being lost

Which country in the world currently imprisons more journalists than any other? The People's Republic of China? Nope. Iran? Wrong again. The rather depressing answer is the Republic of Turkey, where nearly 100 journalists are behind bars, according to the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. Yes, that's right: modern, secular, western-oriented Turkey, with its democratically elected government, has locked away more members of the press than China and Iran combined.

But this isn't just about the press – students, academics, artists and opposition MPs have all recently been targeted for daring to speak out against the government of prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his mildly Islamist Justice and Development Party, or AKP....

 

[Random]

Rather than calling for a vote for either counter-revolutionary, shouldn't leftists and "bolsheviks" be concentrating on organising among the working class, in order to meet the certain state repression that will come whoever wins the presidency?

 

[articul8]

why can't they do that organising, but also vote to avoid what appears to be the worst of two bad outcomes?

 

[butchersapron]

why can't they do that organising, but also vote to avoid what appears to be the worst of two bad outcomes?

Why not join the MB in fact - what would stop them doing all the above?

 

[Random]

why can't they do that organising, but also vote to avoid what appears to be the worst of two bad outcomes?

Vote MB without illusions?

 

[Random]

Why not join the MB in fact - what would stop them doing all the above?

"We are working to change the MB from within. Join us. We hate Islam too."

 

[co-op]

Have the MB had their "Clause 4 debate" yet?



*prepares to get very cross*

 

[articul8]

Very funny chaps - there's a big difference between socialists joining a party that claims to be a democratic socialist party and was set up by the trade unions to promote workers' representation, and joining a party which seeks to build an islamist state.

To be honest, without knowing what the muslim brotherhood were like "on the ground" as it were I'm not saying that the left should recommend even the most critical and qualified support for them. But I don't see that you can rule it out on some a priori basis.

 

[phildwyer]

Too right. That was a period of unimaginable mass slaughter.

"Low-level civil war" is more like it imo, if you mean the 70s-80s?

 

[phildwyer]

Both you and phil seem to be under the impression that it's got better...

Your both wrong...

Turkey has got better in the sense that a military coup is now impossible and parliamentary democracy established, in addition to which standards of living are at an all-time high, the economy is booming and the government is just about the only one taking the Israelis to task...

 

[Random]

Very funny chaps - there's a big difference between socialists joining a party that claims to be a democratic socialist party and was set up by the trade unions to promote workers' representation, and joining a party which seeks to build an islamist state.

I'm not saying that Labour and MB are exactly the same, I'm making fun of you, and your horrible lesser of two evils stance.

 

[butchersapron]

A party that was set up to represent the workers is the MB. Where is the difference? Is it in the anti-worker actions?

 

[articul8]

Horrible it may be, but it's a choice that faces people on a very concrete basis. Of course you can come over all Pontius Pilate but that won't do anyone any favours either

 

[articul8]

A party that was set up to represent the workers is the MB. Where is the difference? Is it in the anti-worker actions?

No, MB represents people (including some workers) qua muslims.

 

[Random]

Horrible it may be, but it's a choice that faces people on a very concrete basis. Of course you can come over all Pontius Pilate but that won't do anyone any favours either

Vote Democrat.

 

[butchersapron]

No, MB represents people (including some workers) qua muslims.

Yes, where is the difference then? The labour party represents people qua citizens (including some workers).

 

[butchersapron]

Vote Democrat.

Vote Hindenburg.

 

[october_lost]

Maybe this is worthy of it's own thread but seeing as how Turkey got mentioned on this one in relation to an Islamic government and what it might mean for Egypt:

In Turkey the right to free speech is being lost

Didn't the SWP also support a recent Turkish popular front government, as well?

 

[articul8]

Yes, where is the difference then? The labour party represents people qua citizens (including some workers).

citizenship not quite the same as any particular religious group now is it?

 

[articul8]

Vote Hindenburg.

where did I say it was always and everywhere necessary to vote for a lesser evil?

 

[teqniq]

Didn't the SWP also support a recent Turkish popular front government, as well?

I'm sorry but I am unfamiliar with the details. I just came across the article and thought it may be relevant. Someone here will know for sure though

 

[butchersapron]

where did I say it was always and everywhere necessary to vote for a lesser evil?

The logic dictates - as it must as clearly you have no political sense whatsoever.

 

[articul8]

The logic dictates - as it must as clearly you have no political sense whatsoever.

not at all - some situations make it necessary, doesn't mean all situations do