Speeding and general dangerous driving in and around Brixton

[teuchter]

A few weeks ago, round about this point on Coldharbour lane, someone (aggressively) overtook me as I was going along at 20mph.

Today I came across this. You can see that the solid weight of that brick wall has been shifted by a couple of inches in a couple of places. Was this car going at 20mph? Doubt it. Therefore, was this, in any way, an "accident"? I don't think so - this was almost certainly a predicable outcome of dangerous, aggressive, selfish driving and if anyone had been unlucky enough to be on the pavement at that moment then I'd want to have seen the driver take full responsibility for what happened to them.

At the moment we're hearing about people being stabbed on the street. Cars are weapons too, they just cost a bit more to buy, and the law doesn't seem to worry as much about who's allowed to take them out on the street.

Last night I listened to a car literally screeching its tyres around the junction near where I am in Lougborough Junction.

 

[Saul Goodman]

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A few weeks ago, round about this point on Coldharbour lane, someone (aggressively) overtook me as I was going along at 20mph.

Today I came across this. You can see that the solid weight of that brick wall has been shifted by a couple of inches in a couple of places. Was this car going at 20mph? Doubt it. Therefore, was this, in any way, an "accident"? I don't think so - this was almost certainly a predicable outcome of dangerous, aggressive, selfish driving and if anyone had been unlucky enough to be on the pavement at that moment then I'd want to have seen the driver take full responsibility for what happened to them.

At the moment we're hearing about people being stabbed on the street. Cars are weapons too, they just cost a bit more to buy, and the law doesn't seem to worry as much about who's allowed to take them out on the street.

Last night I listened to a car literally screeching its tyres around the junction near where I am in Lougborough Junction.

Good work there Columbo

How do you know it wasn't some poor old dear got her brake and accelerator mixed up?

 

[organicpanda]

Good work there Columbo

How do you know it wasn't some poor old dear got her brake and accelerator mixed up?

it was two young people in the car, hope that answers your question, they were not seriously hurt apparently and it happened around 1 in the morning. The wall has moved 3 inches and pushed the pillar so that the gate is now jammed. According to one of the neighbours even before they had got out the car there were some who were trying to rob them.

 

[organicpanda]

also does anyone know any good brickies who could replace the wall

 

[Saul Goodman]

it was two young people in the car, hope that answers your question, they were not seriously hurt apparently and it happened around 1 in the morning. The wall has moved 3 inches and pushed the pillar so that the gate is now jammed. According to one of the neighbours even before they had got out the car there were some who were trying to rob them.

Sounds like a wonderful place to live.

 

[organicpanda]

it's edgy and vibrant

 

[SpamMisery]

it was two young people in the car, hope that answers your question, they were not seriously hurt apparently and it happened around 1 in the morning. The wall has moved 3 inches and pushed the pillar so that the gate is now jammed. According to one of the neighbours even before they had got out the car there were some who were trying to rob them.

I saw someone posting that crackheads are the most effective tool to combat gentrification and we should cherish them. I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

 

[T & P]

View attachment 137884 View attachment 137885 View attachment 137886


A few weeks ago, round about this point on Coldharbour lane, someone (aggressively) overtook me as I was going along at 20mph.

Today I came across this. You can see that the solid weight of that brick wall has been shifted by a couple of inches in a couple of places. Was this car going at 20mph? Doubt it. Therefore, was this, in any way, an "accident"? I don't think so - this was almost certainly a predicable outcome of dangerous, aggressive, selfish driving and if anyone had been unlucky enough to be on the pavement at that moment then I'd want to have seen the driver take full responsibility for what happened to them.

At the moment we're hearing about people being stabbed on the street. Cars are weapons too, they just cost a bit more to buy, and the law doesn't seem to worry as much about who's allowed to take them out on the street.

Last night I listened to a car literally screeching its tyres around the junction near where I am in Lougborough Junction.

There could be many different reasons how that crash came to be, some of which would be irrelevant of the speed limit in the area. It should also be pointed out that in most of those crashes where reckless speeding was actually to blame, the speed limit will make virtually zero difference, given that the kind of people who engage in such reckless driving don't tend pay much attention to the speed limit in the first place.

 

[teuchter]

There could be many different reasons how that crash came to be, some of which would be irrelevant of the speed limit in the area. It should also be pointed out that in most of those crashes where reckless speeding was actually to blame, the speed limit will make virtually zero difference, given that the kind of people who engage in such reckless driving don't tend pay much attention to the speed limit in the first place.

Not sure what your point is.
If the 20mph speed limit were actually enforced, the likelihood of this kind of crash taking place would be reduced, would it not?
And if everyone obeyed the 20mph speed limit, the likelihood of this kind of crash taking place would be *much* reduced, perhaps approaching zero, would it not?

 

[T & P]

In both cases, the answer still remains 'probably not', or 'impossible to say' at best, since we don't know how this kind of crash came to be. You have perhpas picked the wrong collision to discuss the benefits of rigurously-enforced low speed limis.

 

[organicpanda]

the chance of the speed limit being enforced is south of 0%, priorities, money or lack of, political will or lack of, the list goes on and on
and as for everyone obeying the speed limit, there will always be those who know better/are better drivers/rebels/dicks etc. that means there will always be a small minority who constantly break the law

 

[teuchter]

In both cases, the answer still remains 'probably not', or 'impossible to say' at best, since we don't know how this kind of crash came to be. You have perhpas picked the wrong collision to discuss the benefits of rigurously-enforced low speed limis.

Here's what I think is reasonable to say is likely what happened: the car was travelling west along Coldharbour Lane and on the left hand side of the road. Something caused it to swerve across the other lane, and pavement, and crash into the wall still going at a speed that was enough to deform most of the front crumple zone, and shift a large mass of brickwork by 2 or 3 inches. I'm going to estimate that the distance along a plausible curve from the westbound lane to the wall is at least 10m, and the stopping distance (including thinking distance) at 20mph is about 12m.

It's on that basis that I think it's really not wild speculation to suspect that at the point where the car first swerved, it was probably going at more than 20mph.

 

[Mr Retro]

the chance of the speed limit being enforced is south of 0%, priorities, money or lack of, political will or lack of, the list goes on and on
and as for everyone obeying the speed limit, there will always be those who know better/are better drivers/rebels/dicks etc. that means there will always be a small minority who constantly break the law

I only have my drivers license for 2 years though I drove in Ireland on a provisional for 5 years, 20 years ago.

I can’t get my head around how bad, reckless and inconsiderate some drivers are. I don’t remember it being like this.

I regularly see drivers overtake on the busy 20 mph street near me, which has a school on either end. Fucking clowns.

 

[Gramsci]

I live directly on that section of Coldharbour lane. Cars do speed. Especially at night when there is less traffic on that section of CHL.

 

[Gramsci]

I agree with teuchter . On my section of CHL. Between LJ and accident site I think it is difficult to keep to 20 mph without annoying other drivers.

I like motorbikes but moped and motorcycles are the worst. Regularly see them tearing down my bit of CHL.

 

[teuchter]

Quoted from other thread -

update on the crash. Apparently the driver was speeding, took swerved and lost control when avoiding a dog/fox. crashed into the the wall narrowly missing a group of pissed up people and was rendered temporarily unconscious. while the crowd was trying to get at the driver who was on the floor someone else robbed the car, they moved on when the emergency services turned up

we are still trapped send beer

 

[teuchter]

I live directly on that section of Coldharbour lane. Cars do speed. Especially at night when there is less traffic on that section of CHL.

I don't really understand why people don't seem to be more angry about this in general. It seems that the other night several people came very close potentially to being killed as a direct result of speeding. And yet it feels like many people want to find reasons to excuse the drivers' behaviour.

This is not an abstract danger, like air pollution. This is a simple matter of cars being driven in a way that massively increases the risk of pedestrians and others being seriously injured or killed. And when it's happening in your own neighbourhood, that means you and people close to you are being put at real, non-abstract risk. And the dangerous driving is not an invisible phenomenon. It's there in plain sight, every day and night.

 

[RoyReed]

The 20mph limit seems to have led to an increase in some bad behaviour with aggressive tailgating of people who try to keep to the limit and even dangerous overtaking of 'slow' drivers in narrow built up streets.

 

[teuchter]

It's not the 20mph limit that creates the bad behaviour though.

 

[RoyReed]

It's not the 20mph limit that creates the bad behaviour though.

No, I agree. It's idiot driving.

 

[bimble]

People are constantly doing the thing of aggressively overtaking when you go at 20 on coldharbour lane, which is a narrow busy road with parked cars and plenty of pedestrians. This was not a fun place to learn to drive.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't really understand why people don't seem to be more angry about this in general. It seems that the other night several people came very close potentially to being killed as a direct result of speeding. And yet it feels like many people want to find reasons to excuse the drivers' behaviour.

This is not an abstract danger, like air pollution. This is a simple matter of cars being driven in a way that massively increases the risk of pedestrians and others being seriously injured or killed. And when it's happening in your own neighbourhood, that means you and people close to you are being put at real, non-abstract risk. And the dangerous driving is not an invisible phenomenon. It's there in plain sight, every day and night.

Because the 20mph speed limit is seen as attack on the ordinary working person and there car now. Its not even a gender issue. Women drivers get as worked up about it as men.

Its the I work hard and have a car what right have these people to tell me what to do line of argument.

On another thread here there are photos of the 90s "Reclaim the streets" protest. At that time it looked like there was an opposition to " car culture". And not just in Brixton. Quite radical opposition.

Now moving to transport policy that puts pedestrians/ cyclists/ buses first as mainstream , which is a success due partly imo of the way out "swampys" of years back, is now seen as imposition on the average person. Like its anti working class. I despair.I know people in LJ who don't own a car and can't afford one who see all these measures in that light.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't really understand why people don't seem to be more angry about this in general. It seems that the other night several people came very close potentially to being killed as a direct result of speeding. And yet it feels like many people want to find reasons to excuse the drivers' behaviour.

This is not an abstract danger, like air pollution. This is a simple matter of cars being driven in a way that massively increases the risk of pedestrians and others being seriously injured or killed. And when it's happening in your own neighbourhood, that means you and people close to you are being put at real, non-abstract risk. And the dangerous driving is not an invisible phenomenon. It's there in plain sight, every day and night.

Another thing. Its a vote loser to go on about cars. Last election making Lambeth pedestrian friendly hardly got a look in.

Greens spent there time going in about housing etc. At recent Council elections they were silent on the issue of putting pedestrian and cyclists first. They imo stayed off the issue. Which as they are supposed to be Green is a bit off.

Since the LJ road closures debacle the political argument to do a fundamental change has been been lost.

 

[MissL]

It makes me feel sick in the stomach when I see cars speeding down residential streets with cars parked either side. It is so easy for a child or anyone really to step out and they would not have a chance of stopping. I don't know why people do it. General fuckwittery or just not giving a shit about anyone else. I saw the worst piece of driving I've ever seen at the junction of Josephine Aveneue/ Brixton Water Lane the other day. Cars often queue for a few minutes to turn right into Brixton Water Lane at that junction. One absolute fucktard turning left could not be bothered to wait behind the queue of cars so just drove onto the pavement and round the corner into Brixton Water Lane ON THE PAVEMENT.

 

[bimble]

If you keep an eye on the 'street furniture' round here or whatever its called (the metal signposts plastic bollards on crossings, trees and even lamposts) on CHL in particular they are continuously being knocked over into the road and replaced. That we have so many cctvs around but none for this behaviour doesn't make sense.

 

[teuchter]

If you keep an eye on the 'street furniture' round here or whatever its called (the metal signposts plastic bollards on crossings, trees and even lamposts) on CHL in particular they are continuously being knocked over into the road and replaced. That we have so many cctvs around but none for this behaviour doesn't make sense.

Yes, I notice this all the time too.

And yes, speed cameras can pay for themselves, can't they? I'm not sure that a lack of police resources need stop the installation of speed cameras.

 

[teuchter]

It makes me feel sick in the stomach when I see cars speeding down residential streets with cars parked either side.

same here.

 

[Mr Retro]

The park I live in now is a dead end with a roundabout at the end. People think it is a through road but when they realise it is not, some absolutely fly through the park, around the roundabout and away. Children play and drive their bikes around that roundabout.

Twice I managed to confront drivers speeding through and both times was met with genuine surprise and apologies. No good when you’ve knocked down a child to be sorry afterwards.

 

[Winot]

Yes, I notice this all the time too.

And yes, speed cameras can pay for themselves, can't they? I'm not sure that a lack of police resources need stop the installation of speed cameras.

IIRC there are limits imposed on where you can introduce speed cameras. I think you need to show that the location is particularly prone to accidents. In the meantime, even if there aren’t accidents, fast driving puts people off cycling and they are more likely to use the car.

 

[bimble]

This actually happened in my street (cars parked either side all the way along) whilst i was having a driving lesson few months ago: Football rolls into the road followed by small child chasing it. And people speed down here constantly. I was scared of cars before becoming a driver but so much more so now i'm one of them.