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Sound Engineering Declared Grumpiest Profession In The World

Quite. My current PA setup set is:

Susanne Vega - Toms Diner
Robert Palmer - Addicted To Love
Lyle Lovett - Rise Up
Tom Petty - Running Down A Dream
Indiana - Solo Dancing

:D
why test the set with music different to that being played? surely test with the correct genre and production values and get it sounding good for that kind of music?
 
Because I'm not being paid to listen to stuff I like, those tracks are just tools. No different to the way a bricklayer views a trowel :)
In which case why not have beautiful, well made tools that are a pleasure to use?

TBH the fact that you see music as a bricklayer views a trowel says it all.
 
I thought Kruder & Dorfmeister was the test music of choice, or is that only for audiophiles on home systems?
 
In which case why not have beautiful, well made tools that are a pleasure to use?

TBH the fact that you see music as a bricklayer views a trowel says it all.
I don't see music that way, I view the tools I use as something that enables music to be the wonderful thing it is.
 
this is just for you beesonthewhatnow
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I'll just throw this in for general comment - it's a quote from a google search of What is EQ'ing - I don't know but this made a lot of sense to me - and a question I'd then ask of ringo - why isn't reggae recorded "right" in the first place?

It is recorded right, but I see what you're asking. Hope this isn't patronising, just trying to outline it in brief. In Jamaica in the 1950's nobody had any money and there were very few jobs so nobody had records or a record player. The few radios on the island could pick up American radio stations, but there was no Jamaican recorded music until the late 50's and even then JA radio stations refused to play Jamaican music until the late 70's. Migrant workers would bring American R'n'B records back when they returned to Jamaica and sailors would bring them to sell when they made port in Kingston.

Sound systems like Coxsone's Downbeat grew out of the need to have a dance, a social gathering, others like Duke Reid played records to attract customers to his liquor store. The sound systems would attract customers by stringing up metal horns in the trees and turning up the treble so that they could be heard from miles away. They also came up with the idea of putting the bass speakers into huge wardrobe size enclosures called a "house of joy" to give a deep, loud bass. When the sound systems started to compete with each others, the invention of the sound clash, they would try and build ever bigger speakers boxes and louder amplifiers to power them to drown out and and beat down their opposition. The resulting sound was the hugely emphasized drum and bass which influenced dance music etc.

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When they started to make their own music in Jamaica producers engineered it to play on those sound systems, there was no thought to selling records abroad or to cater to anyone else's taste, and they would perfect over many years a production style which cut to vinyl the heaviest possible bass sound in the specific range they desired, intended to shake the spine of the audience. That's not the lowest bass possible, its the one you know when it hits you in the stomach. Pre-amps were introduced to increase the possibilities of amplification and then fitted with parametric controls to emphasize the desired frequency.

The art of the producer is to cut the tune so that when played on such a sound system all those aspects are present and can be manipulated by the sound man to destroy their opposition. Every reggae fan knows the uncomfortable truth that the record you hear on sound system, and very often in the record shop, doesn't sound as good when you take it home and play it on a standard hifi.

If you go through to the version (starting at 2:38) played after the vocal this is what we call a headtop dub - the drum and bass is heavily emphasised and much of the mid range cut out:



The furthest extreme of this production style is the sound system dubplate, which is often EQ'd to only sound good on a sound system. A few have been pressed to normal vinyl and released, this dub by Ras Muffet (starting around 5:30) is a good example. Recorded to digital format and played through YouTube it has little clarity, the bass is too booming and it sounds muddy. On sound system this tune is heavy like lead:

 
Tiresome spats aide, I actually find this thread quite interesting, as it highlights to me the gulf between the parts of the job most people know about (local pub/club type gigs) and the area very few people get to see (large scale touring shows).

At the pub end of the scale, yes, if I'm perfectly honest the stereotype of the grumpy, jaded, metal loving guitarist, will be encountered more often than not. It's a fun job but the pay is pretty crap, the hours are awful and you frequently have to deal with total arseholes. For every decent bad you get to mix there will be 10 others that are terrible and think that the rock star attitude comes before talent. And yes, at this level the term "engineer" is somewhat undeserved. "Sound Technician" might be more apt. You turn up, plug in a few bits, do a mix and then pack it all away and fuck off home. What sets the good ones apart at this level is those who can drop the grumpy act and learn a few people skills. Be friendly, try and help the idiot who doesn't know how to plug in his amp and do the best you can.

But at the other end it's a different world. I'm incredibly fortunate in that Ia lot of the time I'm able to make a living working with groups of people who are the best in the word at what they do. A large scale touring show nowadays is an incredibly complex and technologically advanced affair, utilising equipment that costs hundreds of thousands of pounds and requires an incredibly high level of technical skill to design and operate. Even before you get to the audio aspects the basic rigging of a large PA system requires a lot of planning to make it safe as you're hanging several tons of gear over peoples heads. Fuck it up and people will die. For this sort of stuff the "engineer" label is fully deserved. You are living in close proximity to others for potentially months at a time in a highly pressured environment, often running on very little sleep. A grumpy, surly type won't last 5 minutes.

Yeah there's no way I could do that job tbh. I've have worked on big operations like this but only schlepping cabinets and running cables etc. The thought of being in charge of it all, hell no.

Plugging in a club PA system and operating a mixing desk, yeah I'm happy to call myself a lowly 'sound tech'. Usually it's not even that, and my official title is 'bloke who knows how the PA works'.

I'm definitely not a metal guitarist though. Nor am I grumpy, even when dealing with complete idiots I know that it will all get sorted a lot easier if I don't moan or kick off at anyone. Nobody ever stopped being an idiot because someone shouted at them.
 
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You seem to think setting up a PA is some great artistic thing. It's not. It's science/physics. The artistic bit is the mixing...

ah yes, well if your separating the two things out... once it set up, angled the right way etc, you then need to get it sounding right for the music being played... surely all in a days work and part of the same job description
 
I don't think it's a great artistic thing. I just don't know why you'd choose to listen to tom petty or some other tedious crap when there's a thousand good songs that would serve the exact same purpose.
 
I don't think it's a great artistic thing. I just don't know why you'd choose to listen to tom petty or some other tedious crap when there's a thousand good songs that would serve the exact same purpose.
Becuase I can't be arsed and haven't got the time to listen to god knows how many tracks until I find one. There's no point reinventing the wheel. I have tools, they work.
 
ah yes, well if your separating the two things out... once it set up, angled the right way etc, you then need to get it sounding right for the music being played... surely all in a days work and part of the same job description
Nope, there's two distinct jobs here. System tech (design, rig and tune the PA) and FOH engineer (mix the band, make artist decisions/follow orders from the band as to how things sound).
 
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