So who's tried a Greggs vegan sausage roll/steak bake?
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braindancer
not for long
Bang into the vegan sausage rolls - a staple of all motorway journeys now. Four quid to feed the family - except I sometimes eat two - and then regret it....
I meant to take a lunchtime stroll to Greggs this week to try the steak bake but forgot. Just added it to my to do list for next week....
I meant to take a lunchtime stroll to Greggs this week to try the steak bake but forgot. Just added it to my to do list for next week....
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
A lot of veggies and vegans and people who want to cut down their meat consumption grew up eating meat, and food is a cultural thing, not just about health or ethical choices. So we want sausage rolls without killing animals for it. Just because you want to not kill animals in order to eat doesn't mean you also lose all your cultural associations with food.
I'm a bit annoyed about this, TBH. Greggs employs a lot of part-time staff and a lot of working parents (universal credit includes the childcare element), and that's why a lot of their workers are on universal credit and the bonus won't help everyone - it's not because they pay low wages. The wages they pay are average for the industry and skill levels required. They don't offer zero hours contracts and they're generally perceived as reasonably good employers. It's a bit shit that they're being criticised for paying their employees a bonus - it won't exactly encourage them or other companies to do the same again.
It's universal credit that's messed up.
99 pence
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Of course the marketing is incredible. Multinational food production companies have invested millions in this because they have nearly found a way to remove the farmer from food production. Vast synthetic, highly processed frankenfood is their future.
It's like Turkey twizzlers without the Turkey, and they still seem to have convinced people its actually healthy.....
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Food that doesn't require huge amounts of land and resources is our future, if we want to have one.
Nine Bob Note
Self-Isolating before it was fashionable
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Quorn hasn't been passed as fit for human consumption in some countries. It was developed by ICI.Is quorn unhealthy then?
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
But this food might not require huge amounts of land, but it does require huge amounts of resources, in terms of energy, and unlike farmland, cannot sequester carbon.
Nine Bob Note
Self-Isolating before it was fashionable
Quorn uses more resources than farming? That's pretty damning
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Compared to other non-animal sources of protein? I can't be arsed to seek out loads of cites and evidence, but if Quorn really is as synthetic as it's claimed, then it could be grown anywhere, and would be better than taking over yet more farmland for imported soya beans or quinoa or almonds and importing them to the UK. It's not like people are going to stop eating cabbages because quorn exists, it's just one of the ways to provide protein without killing animals.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
It can be grown anywhere, or anywhere you can site a factory. These factory based foods still have problems - for example, Quorn is Europe's biggest purchaser of egg whites.
However, the thought of handing over the nation's nutritional requirements entirely to the food manufacturing giants is terrifying.
At least with agriculture, the government imposes things such as traceability etc onto the industry.
Currently, within the EU, agriculture is responsible for 10% of ghg emissions approximately, of which animal agriculture is responsible for 4.9% and cropping 5.1%.
The issue really is soils - the depletion thereof is caused by tillage, and the best way to restore them is by not doing that (min-till or direct drilling) and including livestock in the rotation. Pasture is our best carbon sink and if it is improved with manure (or even better: compost), it sequesters even more carbon. More and more we are finding that soil biota are key in absorbing carbon.
The real issue with emissions continues to be that we are taking carbon sequestered millions of years ago and releasing it into the atmosphere. So; unless there is a wholesale change in how energy for industry is produced, it will continue to emit that very carbon.
I'm not actually against these vegan "meat" things - I've said in the sausage roll thread I tried one, but mostly because it made Piers Morgan angry, and that in itself tastes very sweet. But, I'd place these things alongside their meat analogues: highly processed crap that you eat occasionally
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I don’t think hardly anybody thinks Greggs pasties and sausage rolls are healthy, vegan or otherwise.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
They are marketing "plant based" meat substitutes as being healthy and people seem to be believing it. I'm highly sceptical of heavily processed foods and trust Kraft, Nestle et al about as far as I can spit.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Greggs are marketing the vegan steak bake as healthy? I must have missed that.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
But nobody is suggesting handing over the nation's nutritional requirements entirely to the food manufacturing giants (and factories do have legal standards to meet - it's not only farmers who are subject to the law). Quorn is a meat replacement, not a replacement for carrots, lettuce, wheat etc. Agriculture will not cease just because some people are eating quorn.
The Quorn talk above reminded me of this :
Concerning factory made foods generally, George Monbiot seems to be going somewhat OTT (?) in this article :
Lab-grown food will soon destroy farming -- and save the planet
I didn't see his TV documentary on exactly this subject that was broadcast last week. Was it any good?
But generally, I'm fairly suspicious of this lab-grown food idea (is this even the correct thread for discussing it ?
)
Concerning factory made foods generally, George Monbiot seems to be going somewhat OTT (?) in this article :
Lab-grown food will soon destroy farming -- and save the planet
I didn't see his TV documentary on exactly this subject that was broadcast last week. Was it any good?
But generally, I'm fairly suspicious of this lab-grown food idea (is this even the correct thread for discussing it ?
)
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
The Quorn talk above reminded me of this :
Concerning factory made foods generally, George Monbiot seems to be going somewhat OTT (?) in this article :
Lab-grown food will soon destroy farming -- and save the planet
I didn't see his TV documentary on exactly this subject that was broadcast last week. Was it any good?
But generally, I'm fairly suspicious of this lab-grown food idea (is this even the correct thread for discussing it ?
He's gone a bit mental on this lately. If you are into holistic/regenerative ag/ soil restoration then ruminants will play a big part in this. Probably off topic for this thread, but Google Alan Savoury to see what I mean.
I think it has possibly got something to do with C4 having just invested heavily in a meatless meat company.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Carrots, wheat etc etc deplete the soil of nutrients and these need replacing if land is to continue being productive. We can obviously use synthetic fossil fuel based fertiliser to do this or, a big part could be manure - this is why more progressive arable farming is starting to bring sheep/cows/both back into the rotation.
Edited to add: this is the kind of thing I mean:How regenerative land and livestock management practices can sequester carbon
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scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I'm really not sure what this has to do with quorn existing. People eat quorn, therefore soil will be depleted? Huh?
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
No. You were talking about veg/cereals etc existing. I was pointing out where livestock fits into that picture.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Fields that could be set aside for wildflowers, pollinators etc are being used as pasture, which does not encourage a diversity of species.
But we've done this to death on the other threads so I'll just say that I enjoyed the vegan sausage roll a great deal as a Saturday treat, but I don't think anyone has claimed it's healthy.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Wildflower meadows still need either grazing or mowing every year, otherwise succession means that they will become scrub. All the grassland managed for wildlife is grazed or cut at some stage.
On the whole, pasture land isn't short of pollinators anyway - clover is a common plant to encourage/drill in pasture to fix nitrogen.
Wildflower/pollinator strips are a management tool on arable cropping land.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
It needs some light maintenance, yes. But the current BPS payments only really encourage margins. We need more diversity.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
You won't get it by removing grazers on grassland - you'll get gorse.
All the SSSI and NNR grassland that I can think of has grazing ruminants on it.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I live next to a cirl bunting hotspot so we like scrubland in that specific SSSI. But this is rather leading away from the topic!
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Livestock can be helpful there (though not all livestock is farmed for eating), but that doesn't mean we need to continue eating the same amounts of meat we do now in order to eat vegetables, which seems to be what you're implying.
Whagwan
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Bonus blow for Greggs staff prompts call for benefit and tax rethink
Some workers who are on universal credit could keep just £75 of the £300 payout
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