Smiley culture update

[Fozzie Bear]

Hmmmmm

Dr Nathaniel Cary, who carried out the second post-mortem examination, said: "My final conclusion is that, whilst it is clearly possible that the fatal stab wound was, as described, a self-inflicted injury, on pathological grounds alone there is nothing to determine that this was in fact the case, although it is fair to say that the site chosen is one of the sites that may be used in self-infliction."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/12/smiley-culture-trial-stabbed-himself

 

[ddraig]

dodge
sorry to be thick but what do they mean by pathological grounds?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

dodge
sorry to be thick but what do they mean by pathological grounds?

forensics/scientific

 

[ddraig]

thanks

 

[peterkro]

^^ It's the study of disease.A stab wound to the heart is probably a stretch of the definition.

 

[likesfish]

i doubt the police stabbed him seems unlikey shot by accident beaten kicked to death likely.
They still fucked up smiley should have been cuffed not allowed near sharo stabby things.
Probably thought they had it all under control

 

[DotCommunist]

on the balance of things that are likely I'd take police stabbing him over him stabbing his ownself.

how else could it happen? by magic flying knives?

 

[ska invita]

What is the jury being asked exactly?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

on the balance of things that are likely I'd take police stabbing him over him stabbing his ownself.

how else could it happen? by magic flying knives?

It depends on how out of it he was. But yeah still not believing the police version of this.

 

[likesfish]

i could see him getting stabbed in a struggle but the idea that a copper would just stab him out of the blue doesnt ring true either.
Cops kill the mad and the drunk when restraint crosses the line or fucking up with guns not stabbing people.
But nobody is going to belive somebody just stabbed themselves its a bit of a wtf moment.

 

[8115]

What is the jury being asked exactly?

Cause of death I would think, same as any other inquest.

From wiki

Since 1927, coroner's juries have rarely been used in England. Under the Coroners Act, 1988, a jury is only required to be convened in cases where the death occurred in prison, police custody, or in circumstances which may affect public health or safety. The coroner can actually choose to convene a jury in any investigation, but in practice this is rare. The qualifications to sit on a coroner's jury are the same as those to sit on a jury in Crown Court, the High Court, and the county courts

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The court heard how Emmanuel’s demeanour changed and he was screaming and shouting, prompting witness one to try and restrain him by reaching for his left arm and lowering him to the floor – at which point the police officer said he first noticed a “large” knife sticking out of his chest.
Worried the reggae artist would cause further injury to himself, or injure another police officer, witness one said he tried to keep Emmanuel’s hands away from the knife.
Home Office pathologist Robert Chapman said it was “impossible to say” who inflicted the chest wound because while it was “consistent with self-infliction” the location and the angle of the wound “do not exclude actions by someone else”.

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/inquest-hears-‘smiley-culture-stabbed-himself’



The article also points out that Emmanuel had been smoking weed, but presumably not as much as the copper who didn't notice he had a huge fucking knife sticking out of his chest until it was too late.

 

[SpookyFrank]

^^ It's the study of disease.A stab wound to the heart is probably a stretch of the definition.

In context 'pathological' means concerned with the physical cause of death. He's just saying that, taken in isolation, the nature of the stab wound neither confirms nor rules out the possibility of the wound being self-inflicted.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The inquest jury retired yesterday so verdict soon I guess.

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/smiley-culture-trial-jury-deliberate-verdict

 

[likesfish]

Once had someone drag an unconcious body past hostel reception desk of sombedy who had od'd in his room.
Took moments for my brain to compute what I'd just seen.
i can see that happening if what the police say actually happened because you dont expect somebody to stab themselves in the chest.

 

[plurker]

Majority verdict.

Returning the verdict, the jury foreman said: "David Victor Emmanuel took his own life. "Although the tragic events... were unforeseeable, giving one officer the responsibility of supervising Mr Emmanuel and, at the same time the premises search book, was a contributory factor in his death."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23146121

 

[Brixton Hatter]

So, no ticking off for the police then? No further action?

I reckon the police fucked up and Smiley got stabbed in the struggle. Majority verdict isn't unanimous is it - serious element of doubt.

 

[ska invita]

majority is 10/2 i think? less than 10 doesnt count as a verdict - thats what happened when i was on jury service

 

[Sirena]

I attach no credence to this story but I have heard it from two people: one from London and one from Wolverhampton, and both what you might call deeply knowledgeable of what goes on in the local black communities. It was that Smiley Culture had a thing going with some corrupt police where he was given confiscated cocaine to sell back onto the streets and that he would have probably told the whole story if he had been arrested.

He was never an innocent. As far back as '92, he was known for carrying guns and everyone knew, unofficially, of his involvement in the coke business.

It just offers another possibility to how/why he died.

 

[ska invita]

though if he was going to get killed by corrupt police why do it at a raid?

 

[Sirena]

though if he was going to get killed by corrupt police why do it at a raid?

I'm not sure of the finer points but, it was said, the police who were doing the raid were not his suppliers. How the final scene worked out, I don't know. The story is full of holes, maybe, but it seems to be the word on the street from people who usually know these things.

 

[ska invita]

i can see that - bent copper has a last minute chance to get off the hook....

 

[Fozzie Bear]

BBC Tribute: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23128810

 

[barney_pig]

.

 

[where to]

i can see that - bent copper has a last minute chance to get off the hook....

Easier to smear him as incredible witness etc etc, surely ?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Just read an article in Private Eye about Smiley Culture being hired by The European Azerbaijan Society (TEAS) to record a promotional song... TBH this completely went by me at the time, but I notice that he mentions it in an interview with The Guardian six months before his death:

...At school I thought diamonds came from vaults: now I've got gold and diamond mine concessions in Ghana, Uganda, Liberia, Kenya and the Congo, and I'm promoting a record for the Azerbaijan government.

TEAS is:

Ostensibly an independent trade body...[which] regularly takes MPs, MEPs and government officials on trips to the former Soviet state, where they are put up in luxury hotels.

On previous trips, members of the Council of Europe visiting the capital, Baku, are among those to have been treated royally. According to one insider: "These are real vacations and there are many expensive gifts. Gifts are mostly expensive silk carpets, gold and silver items, drinks, caviar and money. In Baku, a common gift is 2kg of caviar."

...The society is accused of being a mouthpiece for the country's elite families who own much of its oil and mining interests. It is chaired by Tale Heydarov, the London-based son of Kamaladdin Heydarov, the minister for emergency situations, who is one of President Ilham Aliyev's inner circle and is often described as the most powerful man in Azerbaijan.

...According to leaked US embassy cables, the "society" claims to be an independent advocacy group, but its talking points very much reflect the goals and objectives of the Azerbaijan government, which is dominated by a handful of oligarchs.

...boasts the well-connected political lobbyist Lionel Zetter as director, is based at Queen Anne's Gate, close to parliament...provides secretarial support to parliament's all-party group on Azerbaijan...throwing glitzy receptions for MPs at their parties' annual conferences. The society boasted recently that some 400 Tories attended its jazz reception after this year's Conservative party conference...given at least £71,740 to Tory MPs to cover trips to the country...spent at least £9,700 on sending Labour MPs to the country...

Etc, etc.
Bizarre.

 

[GarveyLives]

Lest We Forget​