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Smiley culture update

dynamicbaddog said:
I think that could be right.
More than 600 anyway. It was really moving at the end when after the speeches they played Police Officer from the sound system and everyone was dancing and singing along.
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For some reason (I didn't know about the march at this point) ,I woke up today and fantasised about being at a march where at some point this happened, it felt wonderful in my fantasy...I am glad it has happened. :)
 
Sky news report at least a 1000 people, some of the footage I shot that this maybe a little conservative...
 
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here's a report on the march that my mate did for his blog. He managed to get some photos yesturday.

http://jerrybarnett.blogspot.com/2011/04/justice-for-smiley-culture-march.html


http://www.demotix.com/news/660279/justice-smiley-culture-march-london
 
ericjarvis said:
Wasn't one of the police officers in Stoke Newington nick at the time involved in the fatal arrest of Cynthia Jarrett some years later? ISTR that being the word around Tottenham at the time.
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Yes, he was. 100%.

Randall (Mick?)

I was surprised at what a twerp he was when I ran into him
 
dogDBC said:
Yes, he was. 100%.

Randall (Mick?)

I was surprised at what a twerp he was when I ran into him
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What bugs me is that the real problem is down to a fairly small proportion of police officers who are repeat offenders, but who are backed up by the vast majority of their colleagues who seem to think that by denying that any policemen are "bad un's" they will protect their own reputation. In fact we just end up suspicious of all of them. Regardless of this that or the other initiative from on high that never seems to change. It's a change that has to be made and it's a change that is entirely in the hands of the police, nobody else can make that change for them.

Until we know that any wrongdoing by a police officer will be dealt with by other officers in the same way as the same thing done by a member of the public, then there will not be widespread trust in the police. No matter what they do in terms of PR.
 
When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either. Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.

I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by stabbing himself in the chest. Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.
 
JHE said:
When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either. Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.

I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by stabbing himself in the chest. Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.
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The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.
 
ericjarvis said:
The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.
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No, I'm sorry, I think it is about who killed him. Was it suicide or did Plod kill him? That is the central question.

You are right, of course, that there are suspicions - suspicians that Plod killed him.

If Plod is not being very forthcoming at the moment, my guess is that that is because he has said what he wants to say for the moment (that SC stabbed himself in the chest) and will say more when he has conducted some internal investigation, interviewing all relevant people, and/or when the coroner asks questions (which Mr Plod is of course obliged to answer).
 
JHE said:
When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either. Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.

I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by stabbing himself in the chest. Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.
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Yeah this suicide story is showing up on my Facebook feed too...
 
ericjarvis said:
The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.
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In what way are the Met treating the family as if they don't have the right to ask questions?

Edited to add - genuine question by the way, rather then trying to refute what you're saying!
 
That took up a good thirty seconds of my precious time, banning that spammer and deleting all his injunction posts. I hope he's happy :mad:
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/smiley-culture-david-emmanual-reggae

guardian said:
Police officers who carried out the raid in which the reggae star Smiley Culture allegedly stabbed himself to death are unlikely to face criminal charges, disciplinary action or be officially questioned, the Guardian has learned.

The disclosure comes despite an admission by the Independent Police Complaints Commission that the operation at the singer's home in Warlingham, Surrey, on 15 March was "not satisfactory" and that the actions of at least one officer have been criticised.

In a confidential letter to the singer's family, Mike Franklin, commissioner of the IPCC, said: "The [IPCC] investigation has identified aspects of the operation which were not satisfactory, and criticisms have been made of some of the officer's actions. However, these do not meet the threshold for misconduct under the police misconduct system."

The family of Smiley Culture, whose real name was David Emmanuel, has bitterly criticised the Metropolitan police officers involved, none of whom have been suspended, and the IPCC's decision that the officers were witnesses and not suspects, meaning they cannot be compelled to submit to a formal interview.

They want to know why the four officers handcuffed 48-year-old Emmanuel after his fatal injury. An independent pathologist's report has stated that the stab wound would have "cause[d] rapid collapse and death within a few minutes".

They also question why the officer in the kitchen at the time of Emmanuel's death refused a direct request by the IPCC's lead investigator to give a formal interview.

"Even if foul play didn't happen that day, the officers should be being held responsible for being so incompetent that my dad died," said Shanice McConnachie, Emmanuel's 17-year-old daughter. "Whatever went wrong and led to my dad's death, it's the officers's fault for not doing their job properly. My dad was in their care.

"Their story just doesn't add up and until it does, I can't believe that my dad killed himself, " she added.

"My dad was under arrest and had an officer specifically allocated to his care. How could he walk around the kitchen and grab hold of a knife, without that officer seeing? And why would he? Even the police who were there admit he had been completely calm and cooperative up until that point."

"After he was stabbed, why did they police handcuff him? Our pathologist's report says he would have died almost instantly," she asked. "The police should have been focused on keeping his bleeding to a minimum and calling an ambulance. The IPCC and police don't seem to care about helping us get to the truth of what really went on."

In his letter to the family, Franklin said the IPCC cannot force the officers to be interviewed because they "have always been witnesses [and] as a witness, police officers … cannot be compelled to be interviewed about what they have seen". He added: "As they are not suspects, they will not be formally interviewed."

In the absence of further information from the officers, Franklin said the IPCC has "not found any evidence which would suggest any criminal acts were committed by any of the officers in the house". Because Emmanuel's death will be the subject of an inquest, he refused to elaborate on how this decision was made.

The four officers have given voluntary accounts of what happened, but Franklin admitted these did little to clear up the mystery. They do, however, confirm initial reports that Emmanuel, who faced drugs charges, "remained calm and compliant throughout and as [the police] were clearing up and the search had concluded, [his] demeanour suddenly changed."

Franklin has refused to give the officers' accounts to the Emmanuel family, saying the coroner "has asked that there is no disclosure at this time."

In the leaked letter, Franklin admitted there were no fingerprints on the knife found plunged into Emmanuel's chest. "Contrary to public perception, this is not unusual and can happen for many reasons," he wrote, adding that DNA matching Emmanuel's was found on the hilt.

Because the officers' actions are not classed as misconduct, the only formal disciplinary action they can now face is if the Met initiates an unsatisafactory performance procedure. The IPCC cannot direct a police force to initiate this procedure and although it can lead to dismissal, that will only happen if the officers do not improve their performance over a period of time.

The Met said the force cannot comment until after receiving the IPCC report.
If the report indicated there may have been a criminal offence committed, Franklin would send the investigation report to the Crown Prosecution Service. Given his admission in the letter that the investigation did not find any evidence of criminal acts by officers, this seems unlikely.

The family hired Dr Nat Cary, one of Britain's most eminent consultant forensic pathologists to conduct a second post-mortem on Emmanuel. His report, which has been seen by the Guardian, , concurred with the official cause of Emmanuel's death: a single stab wound to the heart. "I would expect such a stab wound to cause rapid collapse and death within a few minutes," he said.

He also acknowledged: "There is no evidence of any sharp type injuries to the hands, including no evidence of defensive type injuries against sharp weapon attack."
But he added: "In many cases with a single stab wound, no defensive type injuries are seen, including in cases with third party involvement."

Cary concluded: "Whilst it is clearly possible that the fatal stab wound was as described a self-inflicted injury, on pathological grounds alone there is nothing to determine that this was in fact the case, although it is fair to say that the site chosen is one of the sites that may be used in self-infliction."
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I just came in to post that. Its amazing that the IPCC doesnt have the powers to interview the officers present at such a death, the police can simply refuse unless made a suspect. To refuse suggests some sort of guilt or a complete disregard for the deceaseds family imo.
 
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