Ship porn

[pseudonarcissus]

bcuster pseudonarcissus , Do ships’ command teams run to checklist based procedures as in aviation or is it more recognition primed decision making?

Yes and no. There are checklists, but there is not the cross checking of the aviation business. Ships tend to be more hierarchical, and there are a whole load of reasons why a 3rd mate may not challenge a captain. I am told that some cruise lies are better with a more aviation-based system.
Typically, ships operate with a single watch keeping officer on the bridge, with an AB as a look-out, rather than 2 officers sitting next to each other. The captain comes out for the interesting bits.
I did a couple of transatlantic crossings on a container ship in the 80s where the Captain would eat with the officers on a Friday only, other than that he had his meals served in his cabin. The loneliness of command. (I worked for Cunard..you might think you worked hard..)
This was a survey boat, so probably more merchant than naval, maybe DP, so probably more sophisticated in terms of position control than a frigate.
bcuster , the RN placed RNR officers on the bridge of all the ships that went to the Falklands as navigating officers otherwise the task force would have got lost on the way.

 

[bcuster]

Yes and no. There are checklists, but there is not the cross checking of the aviation business. Ships tend to be more hierarchical, and there are a whole load of reasons why a 3rd mate may not challenge a captain. I am told that some cruise lies are better with a more aviation-based system.
Typically, ships operate with a single watch keeping officer on the bridge, with an AB as a look-out, rather than 2 officers sitting next to each other. The captain comes out for the interesting bits.
I did a couple of transatlantic crossings on a container ship in the 80s where the Captain would eat with the officers on a Friday only, other than that he had his meals served in his cabin. The loneliness of command. (I worked for Cunard..you might think you worked hard..)
This was a survey boat, so probably more merchant than naval, maybe DP, so probably more sophisticated in terms of position control than a frigate.
bcuster , the RN placed RNR officers on the bridge of all the ships that went to the Falklands as navigating officers otherwise the task force would have got lost on the way.

There are rarely less than a half dozen crew on the bridge of the ships I served on. 2 officers minimum, plus trainees.

We were never lost, and I appreciated having folks to talk with on those long boring night watches

 

[bcuster]

bcuster pseudonarcissus , Do ships’ command teams run to checklist based procedures as in aviation or is it more recognition primed decision making?

The only checklist I knew about was used for sea and anchor detail; ie entering and leaving port

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Yes and no. There are checklists, but there is not the cross checking of the aviation business. Ships tend to be more hierarchical, and there are a whole load of reasons why a 3rd mate may not challenge a captain. I am told that some cruise lies are better with a more aviation-based system.
Typically, ships operate with a single watch keeping officer on the bridge, with an AB as a look-out, rather than 2 officers sitting next to each other. The captain comes out for the interesting bits.
I did a couple of transatlantic crossings on a container ship in the 80s where the Captain would eat with the officers on a Friday only, other than that he had his meals served in his cabin. The loneliness of command. (I worked for Cunard..you might think you worked hard..)
This was a survey boat, so probably more merchant than naval, maybe DP, so probably more sophisticated in terms of position control than a frigate.
bcuster , the RN placed RNR officers on the bridge of all the ships that went to the Falklands as navigating officers otherwise the task force would have got lost on the way.

There's not much online about the ship, but it's the former Edda Fonn, built as an offshore construction vessel, so I guess it's a typical dynamically positioned bridge arrangement. There will be a forward navigation bridge at one and of a large room. That is where the main navigation equipment its located, 2x radars, 2x electronic chart displays, echo sounder, a steering wheel and a switch to engage the auto pilot. At the back of the bridge is the DP console so if the ship is maintaining station, there will be DP officer sitting here. This is usually adjacent to the survey crew who will have a lot of monitors with position information spread from a differential GPS satnav system. There will be a separate radio area. As a fairly modern Norwegian ship it will have some nice sofas and a meeting table.
In a way, the ergonomics work best either on a long passage with a navigator and watch keeper at the forward bridge, or in operational mode when you are basically stationary, with everyone at the aft DP console but hopefully with a AB looking out of the window.
Navies usually use the term "loss of situational awareness" for screw ups. One wonders if people gravitated to the back of the bridge to watch the survey screens with the auto pilot engaged. Idle speculation, obviously.

 

[T & P]

Well, from a layman with zero understanding of the most basic notions of sailing, I am still marvel that there aren’t far more incidents in shallow waters with submerged hazards. How the fuck they managed before the modern age of sonar and GPS is even more mind blowing.

 

[bcuster]

a rare sight; hopefully a sign of peace in the near future:

 

[T & P]

I was just watching a WWII documentary and suddenly wondered how the aircraft carrier economics could have changed so much that the combined carrier number in that conflict was literally over a hundred owned by multiple countries, yet today there are but a few dozen across the world, at least that deserve to be regarded as a fearsome craft of such class.

Never mind the US’ mind boggling 97 carries listed in this Wikipedia article; even the Royal Navy, dealing with a constant aerial bombardment throughout the war, apparently managed to build 95 of them.

List of aircraft carriers of World War II - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yet today no country outside of the US has more than one or two of them. China about to have three operational carriers is being talked about as a major development, even though only one of them is remotely modern. Most other navies have one at the most, if that.

Has the classification of an aircraft carrier changed since WWII, or have the costs of building one escalated so much that nations previously boasting 95 of them now can only manage two or three?

 

[existentialist]

I was just watching a WWII documentary and suddenly wondered how the aircraft carrier economics could have changed so much that the combined carrier number in that conflict was literally over a hundred owned by multiple countries, yet today there are but a few dozen across the world, at least that deserve to be regarded as a fearsome craft of such class.

Never mind the US’ mind boggling 97 carries listed in this Wikipedia article; even the Royal Navy, dealing with a constant aerial bombardment throughout the war, apparently managed to build 95 of them.

List of aircraft carriers of World War II - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yet today no country outside of the US has more than one or two of them. China about to have three operational carriers is being talked about as a major development, even though only one of them is remotely modern. Most other navies have one at the most, if that.

Has the classification of an aircraft carrier changed since WWII, or have the costs of building one escalated so much that nations previously boasting 95 of them now can only manage two or three?

Economics. Aircraft carriers look pretty, and are good at projecting force, but they're not really worth the money until you're needing them to fight in hot blood. So they become an expensive indulgence in peacetime, and suddenly very urgently necessary in wartime.

For an even more stark example, look at the Russian aircraft (they call them "cruisers") carrier situation right now.

Of course, the big snag is that you don't get to build a carrier overnight, but we've seen that battle fought with all kinds of military technology over the years (thinking of some of the pathetic crap that was fielded as "bombers" during the 1930s, vs the massive acceleration of technical advances during WWII that finished it with jet fighters and Lancasters - something the people flying those 1930s albatrosses could only have dreamed of).

 

[Chz]

It has a lot to do with the evolution of aviation. A modern fighter is the size of a WW2 heavy bomber. Of the nearly 100 carriers the RN had, the vast majority were "Escort" carriers that could field a dozen aircraft. Take the same sized ship today and it... well it couldn't field any really. The takeoff run is too long. Better example would be a light carrier of the 40s. 50 aircraft in wartime, only really able to launch 2/3ds of that (the rest are spares when some don't come back). Down to a complement of 20 1960s aircraft. Same sized ship today would be lucky to have a dozen aircraft.

To have a useful complement of modern aircraft, they have to be huge vessels. HMS Lizzie and PoW are easily the largest ships ever operated by the RN. By quite some way. Double the size of any battleship. For just 36 aircraft in regular use. (They can take 60 in the "plus spares" way)

 

[blossie33]

The wreck of the Cherry Venture which ran aground on July 6, 1973, in South East Queensland, Australia. It stayed there until 2007 when it was finally removed.

 

[bcuster]

Go Navy! Beat Army!

 

[T & P]

Go Navy! Beat Army!

Does the winner get to play the Air Force in the final, or do you ghost them?

 

[A380]

Does the winner get to play the Air Force in the final, or do you ghost them?

Final is Space Force V Coast Guard.

But like the varsity match here…

 

[T & P]

It’s the navy pilots I feel sorry for. Probably looked down on by both the Navy and Air Force alike. and forced to play against the military police as nobody else will have them.

 

[petee]

It’s the navy pilots I feel sorry for. Probably looked down on by both the Navy and Air Force alike.

not sure about that ...

Top-Gun Navy Pilots Fly at the Extremes. Their Brains May Suffer.

A confidential Navy program is studying whether intense fighter jet operations can cause devastating brain injuries in flight crews.

www.nytimes.com

 

[A380]

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Cisne Branco this morning passing along Ipanema beach.

 

[Chilli.s]

10th April 1912 Titanic left Southampton

 

[pug]

 

[weltweit]

 

[bcuster]

Her new enemy, the Archangel

 

[High Voltage]

View attachment 455603

The Beirut explosion in August 2020 appears to have consisted of around 2700 tonnes of ammonium nitrate

This boat appears to have 20,000 tonnes on board

 

[pseudonarcissus]

The Beirut explosion in August 2020 appears to have consisted of around 2700 tonnes of ammonium nitrate

This boat appears to have 20,000 tonnes on board

'Safely discharged'​