Sexual street harassment in Brixton
- Thread starter S A Villarino
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Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
I posted about this project upthread... had an interesting but futile twitter chat with btp about it. Their comms team/social media person didn't seem to know what they were talking about 
Tears carpenter
New Member
Tears carpenter
New Member
It happen loads of times (yes really) but to be honest the clothes I was wearing at the time was showing skin and my tattoos and muscles, a yardy woman said " yo, come let me give you so real love" now I laugh it of because I born and bread in brixton and I guess its a very much big part of brixton life that the whole area is very vibrant with all kind of walks of life...
Most of the time its harmless and when living in a urban area you learn to ignore the cat calls in a way that's not going to offend any one and keep your self safe in your day to day life...
Most of the time its harmless and when living in a urban area you learn to ignore the cat calls in a way that's not going to offend any one and keep your self safe in your day to day life...
I would LOVE to have the guts to do that, arse pinching is something that truely enrages me but sadly I dont have the power or ability to lump the person doing it. Id be too scared of it backfiring so to speak.
Thsi thread has reminded me of one of the reasons I listen to music virtually all the time when out and about - you block out the sound of others
Same, every time anyone's ever grabbed my arse or whatever I've been too frozen up and
to properly respond and then it's over and the guy is gone. Infuriating. 
Once I turned around and the guy grinned at me and looked proud after giving my arse a rub. I was so surprised/shocked I didn't know what to do and just gave him a look and walked off.Hasn't happened in a while, I'd like to think I'd turn around and give a slap or shout if it did again, but...easy to plan things in your head, when they actually occur it's a bit different. I remind myself it's mportant not to beat yourself up if you don't respond 'perfectly', you're not the dickhead here.
I did just have a quiet moment of anger that I've been so self-critical and angry at myself because of my own reactions to harassment in the past.
As if it's not bad enough to feel guilty or judged for one's dress sense, style, way of being, body etc that somehow 'caused' acts of harassment...to also feel guilty for not responding 'appropriately' or how I imagine I should respond is insult to injury, frankly.
"a proper feminist would've slapped him in the face" - shut up brain
As if it's not bad enough to feel guilty or judged for one's dress sense, style, way of being, body etc that somehow 'caused' acts of harassment...to also feel guilty for not responding 'appropriately' or how I imagine I should respond is insult to injury, frankly.
"a proper feminist would've slapped him in the face" - shut up brain
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
I have seen 'leader of prayers' spelt iman, imam, Eman, Imaan and Imaam. And I just googled it and encountered one site that categorically stated you need iman to be an imam, and another than seemed to use three spellings in the first page... My Arabic is seriously rusty (and wasn't great in the first place) but I can't find the standard summary of accepted transliteration conventions: they are usually on the Harvard website. :grr:
What I meant is that where the source of a language Iain a non-Latin script, there are always huge debates about how it s written in Latin script. *usually* there are a generally accepted set of rules at a point in time, but then someone will be along who is differently educated, working to a different agenda or whatever and challenge them. Add complications like symbols that change meanings of letters, pronunciation and tonal elements to language (same letters written mean different things when pronounced differently- one of the joys of Arabic) and you end up with a specialist study subject
E2a found something! Not what I was looking for but it'll do
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Arabic
Yeah I get what your saying... I've seen leader of prayers spelt multiple ways too (mostly imam, imaam) but always with an m on the end. Similarly with faith but always an n (mostly iman, imaan). But never seen leader of prayers ending with an n....
Anyway, I think we're quite off topic here... Happy to continue by pm if you want
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
So do you feel like you solicited that response from strangers because of what you were wearing/how you looked?
Also the second point in bold, who should women be concerned about offending by challenging cat calls?
Women (and people) shouldn't have to modify their behaviour or clothing to keep themselves safe in day to day life.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
I did just have a quiet moment of anger that I've been so self-critical and angry at myself because of my own reactions to harassment in the past.
As if it's not bad enough to feel guilty or judged for one's dress sense, style, way of being, body etc that somehow 'caused' acts of harassment...to also feel guilty for not responding 'appropriately' or how I imagine I should respond is insult to injury, frankly.
Yep, I froze on two occasions - so odd when that happens. I think I had purposefully forgotten all the crap that's happened over the years, but there's been a few
(mostly not street related though)My most surprising reaction was when I believed I was being followed and I turned around and screamed at his face, loud as I could. Thing is, to this day, I still don't know if that was his intention or not, for all I know I screamed at someone completely innocent. He'd been walking right behind me for longer than I consider comfortable though. And it was late at night on a quiet street.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Same, every time anyone's ever grabbed my arse or whatever I've been too frozen up and
Hasn't happened in a while, I'd like to think I'd turn around and give a slap or shout if it did again, but...easy to plan things in your head, when they actually occur it's a bit different. I remind myself it's mportant not to beat yourself up if you don't respond 'perfectly', you're not the dickhead here.
Yes, I usually freeze in these situations - they just take you utterly out of the blue and I don't think you can always respond in the way you want/intend to. That said, the one time I did manage to retort, it seemed to make it worse
On the subject of harrasment and modifying your dress, clothes, mannerisms - I had a really interesting conversation recently between myself, a straight male friend, and a gay male friend. Second friend is both gay and cheerfully 'camp' in terms of his dress/mannerisms.
He and I both described similar processes of walking with headphones, modifying who we looked at, where we walked, our body language, how we dressed, and then a quick kneejerk internal process of guilt/shame when we get harassed. The harassment my friend gets is homophobic, whereas mine are misogynistic, but the kind of thought process is similar - 'what did I do to cause this' followed by anger and fury that we have to modify our lives so much.
My heterosexual male friend was astounded, it's something he's never really had to deal with. I think he was astonished at the level to which anticipating and dealing harassment it was a part of our lives and not really his at all.
He and I both described similar processes of walking with headphones, modifying who we looked at, where we walked, our body language, how we dressed, and then a quick kneejerk internal process of guilt/shame when we get harassed. The harassment my friend gets is homophobic, whereas mine are misogynistic, but the kind of thought process is similar - 'what did I do to cause this' followed by anger and fury that we have to modify our lives so much.
My heterosexual male friend was astounded, it's something he's never really had to deal with. I think he was astonished at the level to which anticipating and dealing harassment it was a part of our lives and not really his at all.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Yep, I froze on two occasions - so odd when that happens. I think I had purposefully forgotten all the crap that's happened over the years, but there's been a few
My most surprising reaction was when I believed I was being followed and I turned around and screamed at his face, loud as I could. Thing is, to this day, I still don't know if that was his intention or not, for all I know I screamed at someone completely innocent. He'd been walking right behind me for longer than I consider comfortable though. And it was late at night on a quiet street.
Walking closely to someone on a quiet street late at night is bound to make a person feel uneasy. Well done for challenging it.
I think it's really natural to freeze up. I had a is this really happening moment when a man wanked off in front on me of the district line on my way to work on Saturday morning when I was a student. I didn't know what to do, utterly froze, so I just looked at my feet hoping it would stop. I was frightened he might do something so I thought if I pretended not to notice.... Luckily it wasn't long until my stop. Thinking about it now still makes me feel sort of grubby
Sorry you had to go through that MrsDarlingKiss.
There are a lot of wankers in the world.
The more I read this thread and the more I think about it the angrier and angrier I get that this is the backdrop so many people have to put up with. Total impotent fury.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Sorry you had to go through that MrsDarlingKiss.
There are a lot of wankers in the world.
The more I read this thread and the more I think about it the angrier and angrier I get that this is the backdrop so many people have to put up with. Total impotent fury.
Thanks idumea
This thread is very angry making. Not just the shitty stuff that people have gone through but the, few, people that have trivialised the experiences of others and acted as apologist for this type of behaviour. Thankfully there hasn't been loads of that on this thread but urban is seen to be more liberal than the outside world where there is so much victim blaming....
sometimes of course casual shitty misogyny and shitty homophobia join hands and have a big old shitty wank, as proved by the man who recently followed me down the escalator at Brixton tube (shortly after I'd got a grade 2 haircut) to vocally enquire if I was a lesbian
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
sometimes of course casual shitty misogyny and shitty homophobia join hands and have a big old shitty wank, as the man who followed recently followed me down the escalator at Brixton tube (shortly after I'd got a grade 2 haircut) to vocally enquire if I was a lesbian proves.
I've always wanted to reply something along the lines of "I fuck boys and girls but I'd never fuck you"
(too afraid I might get a smack in the mouth tho)
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
How long before you get angry with yourself for being angry with yourself for being too self critical? You seem to be stuck in something of a vicious circle.I did just have a quiet moment of anger that I've been so self-critical and angry at myself because of my own reactions to harassment in the past.
As if it's not bad enough to feel guilty or judged for one's dress sense, style, way of being, body etc that somehow 'caused' acts of harassment...to also feel guilty for not responding 'appropriately' or how I imagine I should respond is insult to injury, frankly.
"a proper feminist would've slapped him in the face" - shut up brain
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
How long before you get angry with yourself for being angry with yourself for being too self critical? You seem to be stuck in something of a vicious circle.
I'm trying to work out whether you're being a dick or not
5t3IIa
Registered User
How long before you get angry with yourself for being angry with yourself for being too self critical? You seem to be stuck in something of a vicious circle.
She shouldn't worry her pretty little head about it, should she x
I've experienced it once in 7 years. Has always seemed to me way less bad than other areas of London. I mostly walk around the hill / tube / market areas. Not counting market traders who try to flirt, that is.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
The market traders have stopped trying it with me after i very loudly told one of them that it wasn't going to encourage me shopping with them, quite the opposite. I get good morning or hello now instead Sometimes hello dear. I'm 30 not 80 
Sometimes hello dear. I'm 30 not 80 
Rushy
basically a scrotum
The market traders have stopped trying it with me after i very loudly told one of them that it wasn't going to encourage me shopping with them, quite the opposite. I get good morning or hello now instead
What did they say before?
5t3IIa
Registered User
The market traders have stopped trying it with me after i very loudly told one of them that it wasn't going to encourage me shopping with them, quite the opposite. I get good morning or hello now instead
You've turned into a 'dear' because you're not up for it anymore, obvs.
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Things like *greeting* sexy/baby/beautiful. I pass through the market multiple times each day so it got pretty irritating particularly as it was the same couple of guys every time. I still make a point of holding my partners hand when I pass through the market.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of something that happened in Brixton years ago.
Was walking with two friends. My friend was bisexual and sometimes wore make up. I was with him and his girlfriend. Walking up Acre lane he got some abuse from a group of men walking down the street. His girlfriend answered the man back. They were taking exception on anyone being gay ( he used less polite language) being in Brixton. It started to get quite nasty once she answered them back. We were outnumbered and these were big guys. It was middle of day and we were by tescos so they thought better of it and went on there way.
It sad imo that this kind of policing of the streets goes on still now. For that is what it is.People in general should not have to modify there lives.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Back-chat shouldn't serve as a justification for sexist banter in the first place, which seems to be what you're implying - "the girls give as good as they get, so the banter is fine".
Yes, it has "ever been thus", and that's why it isn't dismissable as "part of the west Indian culture" - that's why it's part of a sexist culture.
And who the fuck are you telling people that if they don't like it, they should move? I don't like it, and I'm working-class south-west London born and bred, and any fucker telling me to move , well, they can go piss up a rope!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Pretty much wherever males gather in packs, this shit happens, regardless of class, colour or culture. Anyone who thinks different is kidding themselves. This is about asymmetric power relations between women and men, and the fact that even relatively-powerless males can arbitrarily decide to exercise social power over women.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
the living theatre. i'll be using that one next time i get hauled up on a sexual assault charge.
Next time?
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Yes I have had exactly this experience (as het male with socially progressive friends) naively thinking homophobic/misogynistic abuse is not a feature of London life and being shocked at extent to which it still features.
Yeah, it's really fucked up.
Worse outside London too. This mate got hit in the face with a smashed bottle walking down a road in Leicester a few years ago. WTF is wrong with some people 
