A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
What is this story? I saw the other thread but didn't want to google it (even in 'Buy a Wedding Anniversary Present' mode).
Scum Politicians . . .
- Thread starter AmateurAgitator
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danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
He’s the Stoke Tory MP, right?
Ranbay
The same rules apply
yesterday he said the 200 kids missing from refugee hotels shouldn't have come here illegally ....
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Jesus. What a cunt.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I’ve had a look for the story. Found this: 200 asylum-seeking children go missing – Tory MP says they should not have come to UK illegally
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Alternative source on Twitter:
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Jonathan Gullis. A suppurating verucca of a man. Literally not a single redeeming feature.
andysays
Love and solidarity
The idea that a window cleaner isn't working class/proletarian if they own a ladder, bucket and chamois leather is a bit ridiculous IMO.
They are still essentially selling their labour.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
"Probably"?
It's fairly simple - the ULEZ legislation means that certain higher-polluting vehicles pay a charge to enter London.
Need to use a van? Drive a compliant one, or pay the charge.
Don't need to use a van? Drive a compliant van, pay the charge, or use public transport.
No tradesperson is compelled to carry a ladder on the tube. That's purely a strawman/stunt devised by LBC. I would suggest, driven by an ideological opposition to restrictions on private vehicle use.
Supine
Newt Member
How about if they set themselves up as a ltd company and only clean bank windows in the city for 750 quid per day?
andysays
Love and solidarity
Is this a genuine example, or just a hypothetical one?
Supine
Newt Member
Hypothetical. I don’t know any windows cleaners!
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
They’re not proletariat. They should identify with the interests of the working class. But they’re not proletariat.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'd be interested to hear an explanation of why not because, as I said, IMO they are essentially selling their labour to the various people whose windows they clean.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
So in the ongoing attempt to define working class for Urban we now have a window cleaner without a ladder being working class whereas one with a ladder is petit bourgeois. Cool.
But. I live in a bungalow and my window cleaner is old and only does bungalows now. He used to do houses with a ladder. So is he now working class or does he remain petit bourgeois- I haven’t asked him but I assume he still has his ladder down the side of his house.
But. I live in a bungalow and my window cleaner is old and only does bungalows now. He used to do houses with a ladder. So is he now working class or does he remain petit bourgeois- I haven’t asked him but I assume he still has his ladder down the side of his house.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Sole proprietors obviously do own the MoP and, around my way, that often seems to be quite capital intensive vans rigged with water tanks etc. They often employ others, as well; clearly petty bourgeois
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
And what about those crap window cleaners who do the upper stories with one of those long poles with a hose up them rather than a ladder. Obviously the windows don’t get cleaned as well but, given they haven’t got a ladder, should we embrace them as horny handed working class heroes ( no ladder) or lick spittle full blown capitalist oppressors ( cos that pole with a hose up it thing?).
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what about a window cleaner with those long things that allow them to clean up to say the second or third floor without ascending a ladder?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Second or third floor? Upper middle class obvs.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Scum Politicians
www.merriam-webster.com
Definition of TAUTOLOGY
needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word; an instance of such repetition; a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone… See the full definition
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Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
So was George Formby working class or not?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
depends if he owned the banjo
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
Straight to the gulag as punishment (for the other prisoners)
maomao
普費斯
My uncle, a window cleaner (there are four window cleaners in my family) has one of them and they're a fairly big investment. He considers himself a businessman and previously was a shopkeeper. He did use a ladder for a while but he fell off it and broke his back hence the skooshy pole thing.
I was brought up to understand that the petit bourgeoisie had some interests in common with the working class and some in common with the bourgeoisie which always made sense to me. A window cleaner with nothing more than a bucket and a chamois is an extreme example of that being at the far end of a fairly long spectrum but it's no less true.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Not all window cleaners are the same. Those who employ others and/or have
are clearly (at least to me) in a different category to those who simply own their own ladder, bucket and chamois leather.
But it's been suggested that even those in the latter group aren't proletarian, and I'm trying to get an explanation of why.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I'm mostly self employed and use an old transit for work. I couldn't afford a post 2006 petrol van to be honest. I try to walk to most jobs if I don't need to transport large amounts of tools and materials, as its quicker to walk around this city than drive, but its often unavoidable.
But the nature of my job, not having a boss and competing against other self employed contractors, does put me into the classical marxist petite bourgeois class and the traditional class base for fascism, so I have zero sympathy for my plight. Cunt that I am.
I doubt my van will still be alive when ULEZ come into force down here, but I'd be fucked (or at least very skint) if I worked and lived in London, Bristol, Bath or wherever
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Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
It's a technical definition. There's a difference between a housecat and a tiger, they have very different relationships to humans, but both are cats. "Proletariat" is a relationship to the means of production, not necessarily a definition of how powerful you may or may not be in economic terms.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
A number of reasons, some technical. First, if they’re self-employed, they’re like artisans or trades people. They are not wage-labourers. Surplus value is created when workers labour longer than the hours it takes to reproduce the value equivalent to their labour-power. When a capitalists purchases labour-power and sells commodities with the value added in the labour process, they are seeking to maximise the surplus value and produce profits.
The self-employed window cleaner is likely to see themselves as a business person. This, to Marx, makes them tend to be reactionary: they want to maintain their position (on a low rung) of the middle class.
The employed window cleaner is likely to aspire to a round of their own one day. This puts them in a similar position to an artisan’s apprentice. Do they have much in common with the proletariat? Of course they do. And as with the historical example of the barbers in Barcelona (and maybe Seville for all I know, but unfortunately my only knowledge is of Barcelona), who during the Spanish Revolution were in the majority aligned with the anarchists and saw their interests as aligned with the working class, maybe window cleaners are all social revolutionaries, but technically they are not proletarian.
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