Thats no doubt what he meant though, or atleast those are probably the ramifications of what he's supporting.
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Scum Politicians . . .
- Thread starter AmateurAgitator
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maomao
普費斯
The kids that die from pollution are the working class ones you know. Or do they not count because they can't carry a hod yet?
maomao
普費斯
And for the sake of accuracy, the morning tubes are already stuffed with working class people carrying tools. Good luck getting across Stratford Station at 6am without dodging a spirit level or similar to the head. The ones with their own vans are mostly petit bourgeois small business owners.
maomao
普費斯
And to put it all together, if you're against the redistribution of money from business owners transporting the means of production across the capital to public transport that benefits all, and don't care about poor kids on council estates dying of asthma and various cancers because they don't fit your image of the working class as 'men with tools' then you are clearly engaged in identity politics and not the class struggle.
NoXion
You remain unbroken, for your fight... is Eternal
Those kids are dying from pollution in general, not particularly due to tradesmen carting their stuff around. We could do much more to reduce overall pollution by improving mass transit, instead of just having dogshit politicians wagging their fingers at people who actually work for a living.
Worra load of bollocks. One of my friends is a self-employed window cleaner and had his own van. It was second-hand and shitty, but he could just about afford it. Does having your own van make one p-bourgeois now?
ska invita
back on the other side
ULEZ expansion is shit on people reliant on old vans but its amazing for everyone else, hard not to support it
frankly the rates trades charge for absolutely anything they should be able to buy a compliant van (petrol van 2006 or older)
frankly the rates trades charge for absolutely anything they should be able to buy a compliant van (petrol van 2006 or older)
maomao
普費斯
The congestion charge literally reduces child asthma rates. Go look at the hospital admission rates for Kensington and Chelsea where the rich have been benefitting from it for years. In addition the money goes into public transport. Its redistributive.
My window cleaning cousin in Edinburgh manages on a bicycle. Most window cleaners have very local routes, the guy who does mine doesn't even have a bike. Does he employ anyone? Either way he owns the means of production so yes, he's not a member of the working class unless you're identifying working class by superficial attributes rather than economic reality.
NoXion
You remain unbroken, for your fight... is Eternal
Sure, but the congestion charge applies to a wide variety of road users, does it not? Singling out a particular type of road user when they're no more culpable than any of the others is just shit politics all round. Speaking of shit politics, crowbarring in "but the children" in a transparent attempt at emotional manipulation is also pretty cruddy. Pretty sure that pollution affects adults too.
No, he doesn't employ anyone. He's got his own tools though, and he makes money off of that. If owning a single motor vehicle means "owning the means of production" (lol), then why not owning your own tools, too? Did Marx ever elaborate on the fundamentally bourgeois nature of motorised transport?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
More than a century ago the london county council had cheaper fares on public transport for workers. Be nice to see that brought back.
maomao
普費斯
It's in answer to the claim that the congestion charge is mainly a working class problem. Most working class people who work in the current and future cc zones travel to work by public transport. Most of the rest are driving company vehicles and are unaffected as the company will pay cc.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
This is a really good point that reminds me, you can't get cheap day returns on trains before 9.30am, all tickets are full price during peak hours. It'd be great to see that got rid of and yes even made cheaper during peak hours, 1. to support workers but 2. because you can't get a bloody seat or bike space anyway.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
We need some of our scum GL politicians to find the political imagination and will to make public transport free at the point of delivery. Basically, only £5bn needs to be skimmed from the trillions flowing through the City to tax havens to make up the fares component of the TfL budget. Then we could really be Luxembourg-on-Thames.
not a trot
Well-Known Member
Livingstone tried to bring in free transport about 40 years ago. Some scummy Tory run council, challenged it in the courts, and won.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
AFAIR the 'Fair's Fares' scheme was about fare reductions through significant subsidy, rather than actual free transport for the majority. But yeah, it was the very scummy LB of Bromley that initiated the legal challenges that finally undid Livingstone's policy.
maomao
普費斯
There's no boss exploiting his labour. Is everyone who doesn't have the resources to live independently now working class?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
He’s petite bourgeois.
maomao
普費斯
There's an echo in here.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I skim-read the thread, so probably.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Genuinely not sure about the classic definition tbh
maomao
普費斯
Well, the window cleaner was the example my dad used when it was drummed into me as a child.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Working class is wider than proletariat, normally. That why sickles are included with the hammers.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Is that not the peasantry in some other unorthodox formulation?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It is the peasantry, but it’s only unorthodox if they’re claimed as proletarian.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Top debating skillz on show there.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
They will grow up to be capitalists so deserve to be wheezy...
And if they develop a disability then obviously should be treated second class citizens...
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Labour is part of capital.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
To secure for the
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Is he the one who was wanked off into a champagne glass?
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