Scots indy results thread

[littlebabyjesus]

The problem is that in England, with such a large number of people there is no way to devolve power.

This is complete rubbish. Power was devolved quite a bit more than it is now pre-Thatcher. This idea that you cannot have larger states with distinctly devolved power really is nonsense. Look around the world at other places.

The USA is a good example of a large country in which substantial power is devolved to the individual states. Germany, too. There is no reason whatever why a large country needs to have highly centralised power. Why would you think that there was?

 

[DairyQueen]

This is complete rubbish. Power was devolved quite a bit more than it is now pre-Thatcher. This idea that you cannot have larger states with distinctly devolved power really is nonsense. Look around the world at other places.

I don't see how you can have large state like Britain, America or England and then bemoan the concept of nationalism. That's the whole point.

 

[butchersapron]

I knew it was englands fault. Too big to give comparative models any constitution flow. The very idea that there is a constitutional way out of the mess is shocking. I couldn't care less about a constitution and neither did you - but now, it's your flame and fight. Fight for it. Time wasters.

 

[DairyQueen]

I knew it was englands fault. Too big to give comparative models any constitution flow. The very idea that there is a constitutional way out of the mess is shocking. I couldn't care less about a constitution and neither did you - but now, it's your flame and fight. Fight for it. Time wasters.

Not at all, I am saying you're fucked, and I'm going down with you.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't see how you can have large state like Britain, America or England and then bemoan the concept of nationalism. That's the whole point.

Eh?

From my point of view, make states as large as we can. Let's have one world state - in which powers are highly devolved. This isn't about nationalism as I'm not attached to one particular size of state. A properly democratic united states of Europe? Why not? Many of the world's problems now need to be dealt with at an international level - if we could bring democratic accountability in some way to that level, it would be rather advantageous.

I'm not advocating the EU, btw, which is profoundly undemocratic.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't see how you can have large state like Britain, America or England and then bemoan the concept of nationalism. That's the whole point.

None of your replies make any sense. They are just things that you type. They are not connected to what we're ever talking about.

I think you may be the 2nd ever person i put on ignore.

edit: plus you're a horrible racist with no understanding of why you are a horrible racist

 

[DairyQueen]

Eh?

From my point of view, make states as large as we can. Let's have one world state - in which powers are highly devolved. This isn't about nationalism as I'm not attached to one particular size of state. A properly democratic united states of Europe? Why not? Many of the world's problems now need to be dealt with at an international level - if we could bring democratic accountability in some way to that level, it would be rather advantageous.

I'm not advocating the EU, btw, which is profoundly undemocratic.

But the USA relies heavily on nationalism to keep its states together. In fact, the intensity of its nationalism is probably the only thing that keeps individual states together. The EU relies on the strength of its economy while desperately trying to formulate some common identity between groups of people. The one thing about the EU that worked was that it was co-operative and voluntary, that is just not the case any more.

 

[DairyQueen]

edit: plus you're a horrible racist with no understanding of why you are a horrible racist

Why do you say that? This is just nonsense.

 

[butchersapron]

Examine each piece of this drivel above. The US states want to break apart. Greece is hanging in on there due to it booming economy. You couldn't maker it up.

 

[DairyQueen]

Examine each piece of this drivel above. The US states want to break apart. Greece is hanging in on there due to it booming economy. You couldn't maker it up.

What you have said is nonsense. None of it even implies racism. Greece has been shafted by the EU, it is not its booming economy but threat of complete collapse that has kept it in the EU. American nationalism? Are you kidding me? The whole concept of state versus federal interests. How is that racist? It is just nonsense.

 

[butchersapron]

Why do you say that? This is just nonsense.

Post after post since thursday- disagree with you = english, being english =posh, being english= not to be trusted.

You are where nationalism leads and i hope any left wingers thinking they can play with the fire of nationalism learn they can't.

 

[butchersapron]

What you have said is nonsense. None of it even implies racism. Greece has been shafted by the EU, it is not its booming economy but threat of complete collapse that has kept it in the EU. American nationalism? Are you kidding me? The whole concept of state versus federal interests. How is that racist? It is just nonsense.

Look, just drivel. American nationalism? Where has s/he come up with that from? The same place that the states want to leave.

Took some time, but clocked as fantasy world.

 

[DairyQueen]

Post after post since thursday- disagree with you = english, being english =posh, being english= not to be trusted.

You are where nationalism leads and i hope any left wingers thinking they can play with the fire of nationalism learn they can't.

That is complete garbage. At no point have I suggested that English people are posh or not to be trusted. You're fabricating bullshit.

If you want to understand Scottish demographics, then read about it.

 

[DairyQueen]

Look, just drivel. American nationalism? Where has s/he come up with that from? The same place that the states want to leave.

Took some time, but clocked as fantasy world.

What a load of nonsense. American Patriotism? You are seriously going to draw a distinction between patriotism and nationalism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinheads_and_Patriots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_patriotism

Of course there is some popular support for secession.

A Reuters/Ipsos poll sought to see if Thursday’s Scottish independence referendum ‒ which failed ‒ inspired Americans to dream of secession from the United States. According to the results, 23.9 percent of those surveyed either strongly supported or tended to support the idea of their state breaking away from the union.

 

[butchersapron]

That is complete garbage. At no point have I suggested that English people are posh or not to be trusted. You're fabricating bullshit.

If you want to understand Scottish demographics, then read about it.

You did worse, you suggested that just by being english newbie supported a horrible twitter attack on andy murray and further, that this was characteristic of 'the english'.

the english

You are a disgrace.

 

[butchersapron]

What a load of fucking horseshit. American Patriotism? You are seriously going to draw a distinction between patriotism and nationalism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinheads_and_Patriots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_patriotism

I rest my case -nothing to do with what we're talking about.Here's some odd links about stuff i brought up myself.

Disgrace. i hope you've been home at least since thursday.

 

[DairyQueen]

How is that nothing do to with it? Of course O'Reilly and the American establishment are nationalists as we are defining it.

 

[butchersapron]

Hiding in plain view.

 

[DairyQueen]

Utter nonsense. I am not hiding from anything. The idea that you can dress up nationalism as patriotism is a trick played by unionists throughout this campaign. It is nothing new.

You did worse, you suggested that just by being english newbie supported a horrible twitter attack on andy murray and further, that this was characteristic of 'the english'.

the english

You are a disgrace.

I never suggested anything like that. newbie went around accusing people of nationalism, when the press has run a horrific British nationalist agenda. At no point did I ever suggest it was characteristic of 'the english'. This is just a total fabricated nonsense. Show me once where I described anything as characteristic of the english.

The fact of the matter is that you are desperate to find examples of Scottish nationalism when the real horrors of the last several weeks have been British nationalism.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, the media fabricated it - you were under attack. You principle free arsehole.

How you people who votd YES and want to do something about it going to deal with people like this?

 

[DairyQueen]

What? Nonsense, you are comparing two completely different things. An odd idiot with a massive campaign promulgating British propaganda. That is nothing to do with me. Of course, one of the reasons some people voted YES was to stop this kind of nonsense.

Show me once were I described something as characteristic of the english.

 

[butchersapron]

What? Nonsense, you are comparing two completely different things. An odd idiot with a massive campaign promulgating British propaganda. That is nothing to do with me. Of course, one of the reasons some people voted YES was to stop this kind of nonsense.

Show me once were I described something as characteristic of the english.

I think the king one was the one you posted at newbie the anti-murray thing. NO WORDS NEEDED RIGHT. No need to actually describe your racism - on your part at least.

I wrote you off then - as a simple racist. Tonight i learn that you're a loon as well. So there was some madness behind your method.

I've had enough now. Stop following me. It's your problem now pro-indy people.

 

[DairyQueen]

You can't just say you were wrong? You can't find any evidence, but you know. You'll explain what things really mean. Go with the gut, throw in some insults.

 

[J Ed]

the english
the english
the english
the blacks
the english
the pirates
the slaves
the english
the irish
the miners
the stovemakers
the morons

Is this a Billy Bragg song?

 

[newbie]

newbie went around accusing people of nationalism,

I did no such thing. I asked whether resigning from a UK-wide union was evidence of the sort of nationalism we've been assured was absent from the Scottish campaign. No-one has even attempted a rational answer but you came back with "You're not from Scotland" and a vile old tweet that no decent person would ever use as ammunition but which you'd stored up for use against anyone English critical of nationalism. This is how the English behave, you're all the same, all British nationalists.

Britain can't really cope with genuine diversity of opinion and culture. Scots are, to them, white, christian and english-speaking so to many it is very difficult to grasp the idea that they are 'really' a minority

Like I said, you're obviously on a comedown and lashing out at all and sundry. I don't know whether you're a racist or simply making ill advised posts, but either way you'd do well to read up about the grieving process and then step away from the internet for a bit

 

[kebabking]

...I'm sure all sides in Westminster would prefer to just not talk about it and not do anything about it.

while i think thats undoubtedly true, i'm of the belief that if forced to grapple with the issue Cameron has better options than Milliband, and his 'second best' result - that of effectively English devolution - looks a lot rosier than Labours. if Cameron gets rid of the WLQ he has one less MP and those who oppose him have 58 less MP's, if Milliband sorts it out he might form a UK government, but unless he gets a landslide in 2015 he'd get almost nothing through on English only matters - Health, Education, Planning etc.. the phrase 'a lame duck shooting itself in the foot' doesn't even come close.

Cameron could easily spin English devolution (effectively the English Grand Committee idea) as strengthening the union - by providing a solution to the WLQ he ensures that England stays in the union, and that his electorate (English voters) stop caring what the Scottish Government or Welsh Assembly do or provide.

 

[danny la rouge]

if Cameron gets rid of the WLQ he has one less MP and those who oppose him have 58 less MP's

On devolved matters. On reserved matters he'll still have 58 MPs from other parties opposing him (on those issues on which they oppose him).

 

[Wilf]

Is this a Billy Bragg song?

If you add a few 'oh, ahahas' it could be off the next Morrissey album.

 

[butchersapron]

And by God he'd be right.

 

[Quartz]

On devolved matters. On reserved matters he'll still have 58 MPs from other parties opposing him (on those issues on which they oppose him).

Cameron will have to get his skates on if anything is to happen before the next election. And he'll deservedly get booted then. More likely it will be Miliband that makes changes.

OTOH could he use Scots reform to reintroduce the Boundary Commission changes which the Lib Dems blocked? Getting those through would disadvantage Labour.