Scots indy results thread

[J Ed]

why so allowed? Who allows it and why does this vote encourage it to happen? Im asking as i know nothing about it

Basically the Catalan government, and a majority of the Catalan people (millions took part in a pro-independence march recently, including Barca luminaries), have been asking for a referendum on independence for a couple of years now. The Spanish government's tactic has been to just say no on the basis that it would be unconstitutional, as I suspect Cameron would have if he thought yes stood a chance of winning.

I would have thought, though I don't know, that this loss by 10% means that they are more likely to relent at some point than the precedent of Cameron allowing a referendum and a subsequent yes vote.

 

[SikhWarrioR]

Meaningful choice might just do that

Like a meaningful socialist left of center party committed to its principles {ie renationalisation of Railways,Gas,Electrcity,Water etc decent pay/employment rights,education,health care,social or low cost to buy housing,no dodgy trade deals,illegal wars,trident,a serious crack down on out of control corporations and bankers and their tax evasion/dodging,a decent comitment to the envrionment and renewables etc etc etc} unlike what we get from any of the Red/Blue/Yellow/Purple rainbow conservatives we currently have

 

[ska invita]

Only 75% turnout in Glasgow. Seems surprisingly low. I reckon a lot of folks couldnt make up their minds, or Yes voters bottled it.

by my calculation if another 10% of Glaswegians came out and ALL voted Yes it woudlve added around 50,000 votes to the Yes tally...if another 20% came out and all voted Yes it wouldve added 100,000.....and the deficit for a win at the current count is around 400,000

 

[Chz]

Westminster allowing the referendum is more about external politics than internal. Remember that the government is constantly criticised for holding onto the Falklands or Gibraltar and their response has always been that if those places democratically decide to leave, yhen they can. Refusing the Scots would be a huge diplomatic black eye and likely piss off all the Overseas Territories, even if it is the case that they don't want to leave.

 

[AverageJoe]

Bookies odds mean fuck all btw

Just saying

 

[JTG]

Just saying

I'm still right. They're not political analysis, they're set by business decisions to balance the book.

 

[William of Walworth]

Just woken up to get this 'No by 10%' surprise. Margin of No is a lot bigger than I was expecting or predicting -- I thought the result would be much closer. I never really thought Yes would get it though.

I'm sure Yes people in Scotland are devastated this morning. How many are truly surprised/shocked though I wonder? (by the result at all I mean, more than by the margin of it).

 

[starfish]

Lets just hope Cameron et al keep their promises about more devolved powers.

 

[likesfish]

 

[William of Walworth]

Just had a quick look at the regional results breakdown on the BBC

Perhaps I shouldn't have been, but I was a bit surprised by Glasgow -- was lower turnout a factor in surpressing the No level there? Or would it have been Yes in Glasgow whatever, even if the turnout had been as high as anywhere else?

Some of those other No margins are massive -- 60% + for No in some places

 

[Voley]

Hard luck, Scotland. I hope you get a good deal out of the further devolution negotiations.

 

[JTG]

Just had a quick look at the regional results breakdown on the BBC

Perhaps I shouldn't have been, but I was a bit surprised by Glasgow -- was lower turnout a factor in surpressing the No level there? Or would it have been Yes in Glasgow whatever, even if the turnout had been as high as anywhere else?

Some of those other No margins are massive -- 60% + for No in some places

Glasgow was always going to be a big Yes

 

[chilango]

ah fuck .

Oh well.

 

[PursuedByBears]

From the Guardian live blog, following Cameron's speech:

Here’s Patrick Wintour’s report on David Cameron’s speech.

David Cameron committed himself to a devolution revolution across Great Britain, including votes on English issues by English MPs at Westminster, as he hailed the Scottish people’s decision to remain inside the United Kingdom in the referendum.

But he made clear the constitutional reforms including in Scotland will not be delivered until after the General Election, and in tandem with reforms in England. “We have heard the voice of Scotland and now the millions of the voices of England must be heard”, he insisted.

Cameron threw down a challenge to Labour to say if they will agree to English votes for English MPs and announced that William Hague the Leader of the House will advance the issue in a special cabinet committee.

The Prime Minister, vindicated in his decision to stage a Yes No referendum, also revealed he has asked Lord Smith of Kelvin to implement the Scottish devolution reforms set out by the party leaders in the final weeks of the referendum campaign.

He also announced that the government will shortly say more about the devolution of further powers to the cities and regions of the UK.

Cameron also did not recommit himself to the Barnett formula - the method by which resources are distributed on a population basis across England Scotland and Wales. Both Labour local councils, Tory MPs and Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, immediately insisted the Barnett formula has to be torn up.

Farage also pressed Scottish MPs to make an immediate commitment not to vote any further in English only issues, as he called for a constitutional convention to discuss the whole future political settlement in the UK. He said “The fact that three party leaders made commitments on behalf of millions of UK voters means nothing. Why should I stand by a panicky commitment to Scotland made by the Prime Minister?”

Some of Cameron’s remarks make clear that the offer of further powers in Scotland is dependent not only on the next election, but also a wider constitutional settlement including the exclusion of Scottish MPs from voting on many issues confined to England.

So already questioning the Barnett formula and the West Lothian question.

Can open. Worms everywhere.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I'm a bit sad. But also pleased that they scared the shit out of those wankers in Westminster.
Also, now whenever we hear cries of "voter apathy" we'll know it's bollocks.


Anyway, the conspiracy theories are now in circulation:

 

[cantsin]

I'm still right. They're not political analysis, they're set by business decisions to balance the book.

Betfair is punter to punter betting not set by bookies - it got to 1/14 on : NO by midnight / prior to first result - i went to bed.

 

[Lord Camomile]

UKIP leader Nigel Farage has just posted letters from Westminster to all 59 Scottish MPs asking them not to vote on English issues...

Mr Farage tweets: We need a full, proper national debate about the democratic future of England #indyref

Can open. Worms everywhere.

Certainly looks like it at the moment. Do wonder if they'll somehow manage to sweep the worms under the carpet, and other mixed metaphors.

 

[quiquaquo]

Turkeys voting for Christmas albeit after a disgraceful media fear campaign.

Sad really, listening to that triumphant gloating scumbag Nicky Campbell on the radio right now.

 

[flypanam]

I haven't got 30 years.

That's tough but tiocfaidh ár lá .

 

[The39thStep]

84% Turnout. If only the rest of the UK would get that political

The cheadlehighstreet independence referendum in 2002 had a 102% turn out

 

[Favelado]

On the bright side this probably means that the Catalans are more likely to be 'allowed' a referendum, which they will almost certainly vote yes in.

The mood I get at the moment is that Madrid government are going to do anything they can to stop that. They'll pull any stunt necessary to stop it.

 

[poului]

Ugh. And Millipede speaks.

 

[DownwardDog]

The mood I get at the moment is that Madrid government are going to do anything they can to stop that. They'll pull any stunt necessary to stop it.

Cameron will return the favour by saying he will veto Catalan EU membership.

 

[krink]

must admit, as an englishman in northern england, very familiar with being ignored and punished by the government, i'm gutted by the result. looking for positives...

Well, despite the press, the tv, the tories, labour and all the rest of the no campaign, nearly half the voters STILL voted yes. That's a result that is not too shabby in terms of the size of the forces against them. Please please please build on this, Scottish comrades.

The no campaign was also a good way to identify and put a spotlight on the likes of Labour, Galloway and the other so-called left politicos. They have shown themselves to be all in it together with the Tories and UKIPs, standing shoulder to shoulder and laughing and back-slapping as the no victory was announced. Although I was gutted to see some so-called socialists and even the odd anarchist crowing about the no victory, I am heartened by how many Scots, who were once his biggest supporters, have now sussed out that Galloway is a cunt. And Labour are finished in Scotland, I reckon.

I'm sick as fuck No won though, fucking bastards.

 

[quiquaquo]

Just had a quick look at the regional results breakdown on the BBC

Perhaps I shouldn't have been, but I was a bit surprised by Glasgow -- was lower turnout a factor in surpressing the No level there? Or would it have been Yes in Glasgow whatever, even if the turnout had been as high as anywhere else?

Some of those other No margins are massive -- 60% + for No in some places

Pretty much like in England and Wales, cities vote left, provinces vote right. Of course Edinburgh was the exception but that was to be expected.

Very sad.

 

[The39thStep]

Pretty much like in England and Wales, cities vote left, provinces vote right. Of course Edinburgh was the exception but that was to be expected.

Very sad.

Should we build more cities in the provinces?

 

[Theisticle]

 

[newbie]

Farage also pressed Scottish MPs to make an immediate commitment not to vote any further in English only issues, as he called for a constitutional convention to discuss the whole future political settlement in the UK. He said “The fact that three party leaders made commitments on behalf of millions of UK voters means nothing. Why should I stand by a panicky commitment to Scotland made by the Prime Minister?”

He's populist and astute and has staked an immediate claim to another English votewinner which differentiates him from the Tories, but unlike Europe, doesn't yet appear to bore most people senseless.

 

[Idris2002]

Another map of the voting:

 

[The39thStep]

In what way would the NHS be affected by independence. I thought they already had control over the funding?