Sara Sharif murder: ‘sadist’ father and stepmother jailed for life

[Spymaster]

I agree with this. It seems eminently fair and just that the father in particular lives in fear for the rest of his life.

I think this is where people lose their way with this.

What you're trying to do here is draw an equivalence to the crime. You want him to feel fear for he rest of his life because that's what he made the child feel. However, to subject him to that is lifelong torture, which I don't necessarily have a problem with, but I struggle to see how it's more humane, or reflects better on society, than a swift execution.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I kinda find it strange how some people think execution is terrible, but a lifetime in jail - and even having to endure brutalisation, fear and violence therein - is desirable. My intuitions are the other way. I think it’s imperative that prisons are as humane as possible, even for the worst criminals. The thought of executing sadist killers on the other hand doesn’t seem that bad to me, at least in a vacuum.

 

[Spymaster]

Snap.

 

[Spymaster]

(This post was immediately deleted this morning because I realised I had quoted Krtek, but shouldn’t have because of mutual ignore. It was literally up for a few seconds and the only person who could have seen it and reported it was Krtek himself. I've now got a warning over 4 hours after it was deleted. He was referring to my posts the other day but didn’t get warned. So much for “mutual”).

 

[BigMoaner]

This is why we have and need prisons. It's just a life time sentance, no more no less, for this sort of crime. My dad was very much not a law and order type and thought most criminals didn't need prison - but there were some cases that came on and i can remember he just used to shout out "throw away the key". fully 100% agree wtih him. there's nowhere left for them.

 

[PTK]

No, I was just pointing out there’s no positive case for keeping them alive and I also don’t think they have a moral right to life either. So, all else equal, it wouldn’t be wrong to kill them.

There has to a be a postive case for keeping people alive, does there? It seems to me that keeping people alive is the default position.

 

[PTK]

It is interesting that, apparently, the other children were not tortured.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I think this is where people lose their way with this.

What you're trying to do here is draw an equivalence to the crime. You want him to feel fear for he rest of his life because that's what he made the child feel. However, to subject him to that is lifelong torture, which I don't necessarily have a problem with, but I struggle to see how it's more humane, or reflects better on society, than a swift execution.

It doesn't have to be humane, or reflect better on society. It just struck me as perfect justice.

 

[Petcha]

It is interesting that, apparently, the other children were not tortured.

The other five were from the stepmother. Sara was the only one who was mothered by the Polish woman (I think). Who interestingly has kept his surname. I'd have dropped that quick smart.

 

[Spymaster]

It doesn't have to be humane, or reflect better on society. It just struck me as perfect justice.

I don't know about "perfect"

 

[rasputin]

I am disturbed that this site, which I've always thought of as one of the most level headed on the internet, should have some members musing over a return to capital punishment. I cannot see how that's an answer to anything. It will not bring the poor child back. It will not deter, because it never did in the past. It will inevitably mean that innocent people will be executed in the future. And it's barbaric. Let's not advocate for a return to the Middle Ages, please.

 

[emanymton]

I am disturbed that this site, which I've always thought of as one of the most level headed on the internet, should have some members musing over a return to capital punishment. I cannot see how that's an answer to anything. It will not bring the poor child back. It will not deter, because it never did in the past. It will inevitably mean that innocent people will be executed in the future. And it's barbaric. Let's not advocate for a return to the Middle Ages, please.

To be fair it's really only Spymaster doing that.

Most other people seem to be in favour of a process of long drawn out suffering over years.

 

[emanymton]

I kinda find it strange how some people think execution is terrible, but a lifetime in jail - and even having to endure brutalisation, fear and violence therein - is desirable. My intuitions are the other way. I think it’s imperative that prisons are as humane as possible, even for the worst criminals. The thought of executing sadist killers on the other hand doesn’t seem that bad to me, at least in a vacuum.

He is a crazy idea, make it be the person's own choice? 40 years in the slammer or a quick death now.

Or the ancient Greek system were the prosecution and the defence each suggest a punishment and the jury gets to choose which one.

 

[Spymaster]

Or the ancient Greek system were the prosecution and the defence each suggest a punishment and the jury gets to choose which one.

This (well, almost) is actually an element of the safeguarding system.

 

[Petcha]

I am disturbed that this site, which I've always thought of as one of the most level headed on the internet, should have some members musing over a return to capital punishment. I cannot see how that's an answer to anything. It will not bring the poor child back. It will not deter, because it never did in the past. It will inevitably mean that innocent people will be executed in the future. And it's barbaric. Let's not advocate for a return to the Middle Ages, please.

If that was my son who was treated like that, sorry, but I'd like the perp to be exterminated. And I'd want to do it myself.

But it's my not child so I can equally see your point, objectively. I hope the fucker rots away but sadly he'll no doubt be very well looked after inside given the high profile nature of this case.

 

[Lotte]

dating myself here, but when i were a lad homeschooling was a hippie idea, so that kids wouldn't be indoctrinated with jingo or gender roles or such.

The irony is that now, TERFs in Dorset are taking their kids out of school and homeschooling them because they don't want them to be 'indoctrinated with gender ideology'.

 

[Orang Utan]

from my experience working in schools, I have been aware of two instances of children being withdrawn from school to be ‘home-schooled’ and in neither was it for ideological reasons. In one case, it was because the school objected to the pupil taking every Friday off to help her grandmother do her weekly grocery shop. The other was for more complicated reasons, but we knew that there was no plan to educate their child at home st all. There definitely needs to be more scrutiny of this. Home-schooling is not exclusively the domain of well-resourced time-rich parents with an informal network of educators and plenty of socialisation from mixing with other home-schooled children. In many cases, I suspect, it’s an isolating and damaging experience for the children that severely affects their life chances, that is tantamount to abuse or neglect in itself.

 

[Thora]

from my experience working in schools, I have been aware of two instances of children being withdrawn from school to be ‘home-schooled’ and in neither was it for ideological reasons. In one case, it was because the school objected to the pupil taking every Friday off to help her grandmother do her weekly grocery shop. The other was for more complicated reasons, but we knew that there was no plan to educate their child at home st all. There definitely needs to be more scrutiny of this. Home-schooling is not exclusively the domain of well-resourced time-rich parents with an informal network of educators and plenty of socialisation from mixing with other home-schooled children. In many cases, I suspect, it’s an isolating and damaging experience for the children that severely affects their life chances, that is tantamount to abuse or neglect in itself.

There already is a system for monitoring the suitability of home education but like all other public services it is under staffed and under resourced. The Local Authority has no duty to offer support, funding or resources to home educators so it doesn't. The staff generally have little training and aren't social workers or educators. Staffing levels are low and staff turnover is high and I imagine most home education departments are totally overwhelmed now with the huge increases in the number of children being home educated (my own children should have been checked on at the end of the last school year - I emailed reports to our he officer in August which bounced back so I assume she no longer works there. No one else has contacted us).

 

[ruffneck23]

Please excuse the red top.

Sara Sharif’s dad ‘has neck sliced with tuna tin lid as he’s ambushed in prison’

Two inmates at HMP Belmarsh in South London reportedly ambushed Urfan Sharif in his cell with the jagged edge of a tuna tin lid, weeks after he was locked away for life for the murder of daughter Sara

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[bluescreen]

No, sorry - he's an utterly vile piece of work but that's also vile behaviour by the neck slicers.

ETA. Not saying I don't understand it though. Just saying that from the safe liberal sanctity of my desk I cannot condone it.

 

[emanymton]

Please excuse the red top.

Sara Sharif’s dad ‘has neck sliced with tuna tin lid as he’s ambushed in prison’

Two inmates at HMP Belmarsh in South London reportedly ambushed Urfan Sharif in his cell with the jagged edge of a tuna tin lid, weeks after he was locked away for life for the murder of daughter Sara

www.mirror.co.uk

Oh dear, how said, never mind.

 

[Petcha]

Please excuse the red top.

Sara Sharif’s dad ‘has neck sliced with tuna tin lid as he’s ambushed in prison’

Two inmates at HMP Belmarsh in South London reportedly ambushed Urfan Sharif in his cell with the jagged edge of a tuna tin lid, weeks after he was locked away for life for the murder of daughter Sara

www.mirror.co.uk

Why do people on this site always excuse themselves for quoting mainstream media outlets? it's so stupid... is there a list somewhere of approved outlets?

often those papers get the scoop way before the broadsheets even have it on their radar.

 

[bluescreen]

(Sorry, misread)

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Please excuse the red top.

Sara Sharif’s dad ‘has neck sliced with tuna tin lid as he’s ambushed in prison’

Two inmates at HMP Belmarsh in South London reportedly ambushed Urfan Sharif in his cell with the jagged edge of a tuna tin lid, weeks after he was locked away for life for the murder of daughter Sara

www.mirror.co.uk

Good.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Why do people on this site always excuse themselves for quoting mainstream media outlets? it's so stupid... is there a list somewhere of approved outlets?

often those papers get the scoop way before the broadsheets even have it on their radar.

Mirror's all right, to be fair! It's the one I grew up with as my mum's national paper of choice - a sort of poor man's Guardian.

 

[Petcha]

Mirror's all right, to be fair! It's the one I grew up with as my mum's national paper of choice - a sort of poor man's Guardian.

The Guardian's not even reporting this yet. It's all over Twitter and the tabloids but the broadsheets are still waiting for their lawyers to wake up before posting anything.

And yeh, the Mirror is probably the most left wing of all the mainstream papers. I don't see the need to apologise for posting a link to that, or for that matter any outlet, within reason.

 

[Lotte]

I wonder what the guys who shanked him were in for.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

I wonder what the guys who shanked him were in for.

Presumably not for non-payment of their TV licences.

 

[Lotte]

Before anyone has a go, I'm not saying I feel sorry for Sharif's dad. I'm just wary of making these guys out to be heroes because of the prisoner who murdered a paedophile and was praised for it...and he himself was in jail for raping and murdering an old woman.

 

[tonysingh]

I wonder what the guys who shanked him were in for.

They would have been on the numbers like him so a sex crime or they was pad thieves etc inside. Either way one wrong un has been striped by another set of wrong uns. No reason to celebrate imho

(Not that you were)