Sara Sharif murder: ‘sadist’ father and stepmother jailed for life

[LakieLady]

As one of the new people, I'd just like to say that the death penalty is fucking barbaric and has no place in a civilised society no matter what the evidence or crime. No one has the moral right to take another person's life. It's not even about the person that has comitted the crime or my feelings towards them, it's just that it's categorically wrong.

Yep, if killing people is wrong, imo it's wrong for the state to do it.

 

[weltweit]

Yep, if killing people is wrong, imo it's wrong for the state to do it.

We pay lots of people to do our killing for us.

 

[Wilf]

A single pistol shot to the back of the head

Not got me specs on and misread that as 'a single poster shot in the back of the head'. Thought wow, this thread has taken an even darker turn!

 

[LakieLady]

In reality I am against the death penalty because of the risk of executing innocent individuals, however where there is no doubt, I can wonder, what is justice for an appalling crime like this?

Sometimes reasons for "doubt" come to light years later though. There have been endless cases where a jury has found people "guilty beyond all reasonable doubt" and people are released and compensated for wrongful imprisonment.

There's no possibility of compensating someone who's dead.

 

[weltweit]

..
There's no possibility of compensating someone who's dead.

Indeed, hance I am against DP.

But as a state we do pay lots of people to excel at killing people on our behalf.

The Army, the Navy and the Air force.

 

[VivaE]

Sustained cruelty to children leading to then their murder, tips the scales for me. I am talking in theory, i.e. this is a case where I wouldn't lose sleep if the definite perpetrators were executed. Assuming there was absolutely no doubt, there can be delays and appeals etc etc but assuming there is no doubt they deserve no more mercy than they had permitted their victim.

In reality I am against the death penalty because of the risk of executing innocent individuals, however where there is no doubt, I can wonder, what is justice for an appalling crime like this?

Life imprisonment, the loss of freedom, loss of autonomy, fear of retribution, the knowledge that life as you've known it is effectively over. Is that not grim enough?

 

[JimW]

Are we time limited on the search for flamboyance? The Empress Cixi of China, who only died in 1908, used to have people's arms and legs cut off and then bury them up to the neck in big plant pots.

Is that like a watered-down version of 人彘?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

But nowadays there are joint enterprise type laws where if one person is guilt they all are, kind of thing. Although I think those are specific laws and I'm not sure if they were applied in this instance.

not a new thing. as in derek bentley, who was hanged in 1953 although he did not actually shoot the police officer.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

not a new thing. as in derek bentley, who was hanged in 1953 although he did not actually shoot the police officer.

Ah, yes, you're quite right, I'd forgotten about that really sad case.

 

[Spymaster]

Life imprisonment, the loss of freedom, loss of autonomy, fear of retribution, the knowledge that life as you've known it is effectively over. Is that not grim enough?

The level of grimness shouldn’t really be a factor, although sometimes I wonder when folk on here cheer on face slashing and living in fear rather than execution.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The level of grimness shouldn’t really be a factor, although sometimes I wonder when folk on here cheer on face slashing and living in fear rather than execution.

I do wonder if some people (not necessarily on here) are only against the death penalty because it isn't harsh enough.

 

[ouirdeaux]

Yep, if killing people is wrong, imo it's wrong for the state to do it.

There are reasons for opposing the death penalty, but that's not really one of them. By the same logic you could say that locking people up against their will, or forcing them to pay money, is wrong, so the state shouldn't imprison or fine anyone. The only sanction left would be saying sternly that they had been extremely naughty, so don't do it again, and even there someone might argue that would be harassment.

 

[Spymaster]

There are reasons for opposing the death penalty, but that's not really one of them. By the same logic you could say that locking people up against their will, or forcing them to pay money, is wrong, so the state shouldn't imprison or fine anyone. The only sanction left would be saying sternly that they had been extremely naughty, so don't do it again, and even there someone might argue that would be harassment.

Yes. LL's statement also relies on everyone agreeing that killing people is always wrong, and there are quite a few situations where killing is generally considered acceptable.

 

[Spymaster]

I do wonder if some people (not necessarily on here) are only be against the death penalty because it isn't harsh enough.

There are many. Any discussion of capital punishment inevitably unearths views along the lines of 'lock them up for life so their conscience tortures them every day', and similar wank. There's been a fair bit on this thread.

 

[PTK]

I wonder what crimes were committed the prisoners in Belmarsh who took it upon themselves to inflict injury upon Urfan Sharif? Should they in turn be assulted for whatever they did?

 

[Spymaster]

Give a convicted murderer a loaded gun? Not sure you’ve thought this through. What’s to stop them shooting the guard?

The fact that not every murderer is an unhinged psychopath seeking to shoot anyone and everyone.

I would also make clear that any such behaviour would result in the immediate forfeiture of the whisky or steak.

 

[brogdale]

There are reasons for opposing the death penalty, but that's not really one of them. By the same logic you could say that locking people up against their will, or forcing them to pay money, is wrong, so the state shouldn't imprison or fine anyone. The only sanction left would be saying sternly that they had been extremely naughty, so don't do it again, and even there someone might argue that would be harassment.

I tend to disagree and think LakieLady makes one of the valid points explaining why state killing is inappropriate. If, as a community, the majority accept that killing a fellow human is wrong, I see no argument for making any exception for the state. I don't see how such a position "by the same logic" suggests that the state would then also have no right to imprison or fine anyone unless there were also a majority to stop such punishment.

 

[freshapple]

Yep, if killing people is wrong, imo it's wrong for the state to do it.

I tend to disagree and think LakieLady makes one of the valid points explaining why state killing is inappropriate. If, as a community, the majority accept that killing a fellow human is wrong, I see no argument for making any exception for the state. I don't see how such a position "by the same logic" suggests that the state would then also have no right to imprison or fine anyone unless there were also a majority to stop such punishment.

The state has the monopoly on violence

 

[ouirdeaux]

Where I live in the UK, the majority believe that it's wrong to imprison or extract money from a human being. It may be different where you are, of course.

 

[brogdale]

The state has the monopoly on violence

Yes, but as this thread proves, if you're going with the Weberian conception, the "monopoly on the legal use of violence" is probably more accurate.

 

[xenon]

The fact that not every murderer is an unhinged psychopath seeking to shoot anyone and everyone.

I would also make clear that any such behaviour would result in the immediate forfeiture of the whisky or steak.

No It’s a daft argument. But let’s go with it. Do you think a non-psycho would be up for shooting someone in the head for a bottle of whiskey and a steak? If they could do that they would just shoot the guard and take a risk, on a small chance of freedom.

 

[xenon]

There you are on death row. If you shoot this guy get a steak and a whiskey. How about I shoot you and take the keys or at least have one more kill. I mean what are you gonna do execute me.

 

[xenon]

Game theory innit.

 

[two sheds]

i think I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread and trust to being updated from any actual developments from elsewhere

 

[krtek a houby]

i think I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread and trust to being updated from any actual developments from elsewhere

Aye. Too many violent fantasists full of impotent rage.

 

[xenon]

i think I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread and trust to being updated from any actual developments from elsewhere

What, developments like he’s been shanked again?

 

[xenon]

Aye. Too many violent fantasists full of impotent rage.

What exactly were you hoping for reading this thread?

 

[xenon]

anyway good. The hand ringers can fuck off. Let’s have a proper debate about how capital punishment should be done

 

[two sheds]

hand wringer not wanting to know about peoples' fantasies of killing guilty people

 

[Lotte]

I don't now and don't really care. Sorry. this particular piece of shit deserves far more than a little slash to the face.

Let me guess, you're one of those people who thinks rape is a suitable punishment for rapists?

anyway good. The hand ringers can fuck off. Let’s have a proper debate about how capital punishment should be done

So edgy. I'm sure there's loads of live executions on the Dark Web you can watch if you're into that sort of thing.