Russell Brand: rape and sexual abuse allegations, grifting and general dodginess - discussion

[Silas Loom]

Why the fuck am I getting shit for this, on a thread about Russell Brand? When the ‘joke, if you can even call it that was on Brand, not Christianity or Jesus. And Brand’s motives were what were originally being questioned here, not Christianity itself.

The joke about Russell Brand’s unwashed cock has been deleted in case it offends passing Christians. What on earth has happened to this place?

Edit - found it now. But the offence-taking, and the pile-on, are all extraordinary.

 

[burtabraham]

The joke about Russell Brand’s unwashed cock has been deleted in case it offends passing Christians. What on earth has happened to this place?

[inserts joke about someone being a very naughty boy]

 

[CNT36]

The joke about Russell Brand’s unwashed cock has been deleted in case it offends passing Christians. What on earth has happened to this place?

Er. It's still there.

 

[Orang Utan]

Presumably though you can recognise, if not understand, that people feel very personally aligned with their chosen community. Might be a football team, or a music tribe, or a neighbourhood, or any other conglomeration of people with whom you feel some kind of kinship. So if someone were to insult your favourite genre of music as “bag o’ shite. Everyone who makes it is an idiot” then you might, maybe, feel some sense of loyalty or injury arising from that? Or your city is just a boring soulless pointless place, why the fuck would anyone want to live there?

So of you can - presumably - recognise that people might feel personally affronted to some degree by such an insult, can you extend that understanding to a person’s personal beliefs and feelings about their religion? Their spiritually practice, the place where they feel understood, take solace, and invest time and energy and emotions?

Sure, but what’s the insult that you’re referring to? I don’t want to repeat myself, but I wasn’t having a go at any one person’s beliefs

 

[Elpenor]

The joke about Russell Brand’s unwashed cock has been deleted in case it offends passing Christians. What on earth has happened to this place?

Infested by puritanical pro nato posters

 

[Silas Loom]

Er. It's still there.

Yes, realise that now. Glad to see that Urban remains as unsanitised as the glans in question.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I think it started over the comment that the catholic church protected abusers.

Which to be honest is about as an uncontroversial statement as to be mixed In with papal denomination or ursine fecal habits.

 

[Silas Loom]

Infested by puritanical pro nato posters

I doubt the Venn diagram of poster positions on this thread and the Russia one would be instructive. Though there are a couple of people chastising OU who will join in at the merest sniff of absolutely any pitchfork-waving opportunity.

 

[Wilf]

I think it started over the comment that the catholic church protected abusers.

Which to be honest is about as an uncontroversial statement as to be mixed I'm with papal denomination or ursine fecal habits.

No, don't think that was the start of it at all. And yes, I agree with you about the Catholic Church protecting abusers, if that even needs saying.

 

[nagapie]

That's a Calvinist distortion of what Christianity teaches. The Orthodox faith teaches that heaven and hell are about the inner state of the individual. According to this older tradition, we all end up in the company of God, but those who love God will experience that company as heaven, and those that hate God will experience it as hell.

Well that's alright then.

 

[brogdale]

That's a Calvinist distortion of what Christianity teaches. The Orthodox faith teaches that heaven and hell are about the inner state of the individual. According to this older tradition, we all end up in the company of God, but those who love God will experience that company as heaven, and those that hate God will experience it as hell.

Bit like Wetherspoons, then?

 

[Orang Utan]

I doubt the Venn diagram of poster positions on this thread and the Russia one would be instructive. Though there are a couple of people chastising OU who will join in at the merest sniff of absolutely any pitchfork-waving opportunity.

Yes, i suspect/know that it’s a personal issue and nothing to do with what I actually said.

 

[story]

Sure, but what’s the insult that you’re referring to? I don’t want to repeat myself, but I wasn’t having a go at any one person’s beliefs

I read Aladdin ’s post directed at you as a pretty clear outline of how she felt insulted by your generalised and reiterated put down of her religion. It was clear to me anyway.

You may not have intended it that way. Any more than when I say I think football fans are idiotic I’m not intending to insult any one individual, I’m voicing my opinion about their moronic massed morass of hive mind nonsense and the weirdness of how their internal weather can be so affected by what their team manages to achieve on the pitch. I hate the institutionalised bullshit that a accompanies football, the venal capitalism, the weird way players are bought and sold for obnoxious amounts of money, how lowly local teams don’t get enough money, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I have nothing against any individual football fan based on their love of football. But I can also understand why my previous comments might be received as insulting and by individual football fans.

I don’t think the pile on was especially personal against you tbh. But I can fully appreciate that it must have felt very personal. It only happened after you told Aladdin that you didn’t understand what she’d said, and then came back to say you wanted an apology if she couldn’t explain it better. So other people started trying to explain it for you.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, don't think that was the start of it at all. And yes, I agree with you about the Catholic Church protecting abusers, if that even needs saying.

What was the start of it then?

 

[redsquirrel]

So if someone were to insult your favourite genre of music as “bag o’ shite. Everyone who makes it is an idiot” then you might, maybe, feel some sense of loyalty or injury arising from that?

I might have missed it but OU hasn't made make such a generic statement about Christians or Catholics has he?

There was a joke about Jesus's dick and then

who would have thought that a serial abuser drunk on power would find a home in the Catholic Church?

I mean strictly speaking the Catholic Church consists of all of the faithful but I think from the context most would realise OU is talking about the church hierarchy.

 

[tim]

The joke about Russell Brand’s unwashed cock has been deleted in case it offends passing Christians. What on earth has happened to this place?

Edit - found it now. But the offence-taking, and the pile-on, are all extraordinary.

It's all the recent posts lauding the virtues of Victorinox tomato knives that I found most shocking. I signed up all those years ago in the hope of being subverted by anarchists. Butchering vegetables for salads is not what I imagined was meant by Propaganda by Deed.

 

[story]

I think it started over the comment that the catholic church protected abusers.

Which to be honest is about as an uncontroversial statement as to be mixed I'm with papal denomination or ursine fecal habits.

I don’t think it was that. I think (and I could be wrong of course) that it was more an accumulative feeling of having one’s chosen community castigated and insulted and held up for ridicule. Aladdin said they don’t support that aspect, and do support the measures the church is taking to deal with it.

Whether or not those efforts are sufficient etc is beside the point here.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I don’t think it was that. I think (and I could be wrong of course) that it was more an accumulative feeling of having one’s chosen community castigated and insulted and held up for ridicule.

I can imagine it's shocking to be on the other side of that for once.

I'm sure Aladdin hangs around with nice people but as a community Christians have a history of saying shit so that statement feels kinda funny to me.

Not all Christians of course.

 

[story]

I might have missed it but OU hasn't made make such a generic statement about Christians or Catholics has he?

There was a joke about Jesus's dick and then

I mean strictly speaking the Catholic Church consists of all of the faithful but I think from the context most would realise OU is talking about the church hierarchy.

There will always be granular ways to interpret stuff and parse it out. I think I’ve been pretty clear about my take on it. I don’t need anybody /everybody to agree with my take on it.

I understand why Aladdin felt aggrieved. I thought maybe sharing my understanding might help OU understand it too. He seemed to want to understand why things went sideways. I responded to that.

 

[Wilf]

What was the start of it then?

Well, I only picked it up today, which was when I saw Aladdin's response to several of your posts (from a couple of weeks ago). Post 2417.

 

[Elpenor]

I doubt the Venn diagram of poster positions on this thread and the Russia one would be instructive. Though there are a couple of people chastising OU who will join in at the merest sniff of absolutely any pitchfork-waving opportunity.

May need to add an emoji to posts for your benefit in future

 

[Silas Loom]

May need to add an emoji to posts for your benefit in future

Oh, are all your posts freighted with irony? That’s certainly encouraging.

 

[tim]

I can imagine it's shocking to be on the other side of that for once.

I'm sure Aladdin hangs around with nice people but as a community Christians have a history of saying shit so that statement feels kinda funny to me.

Not all Christians of course.

Would you feel comfortable saying either of the following?

I'm sure xxxx hangs around with nice people but as a community Jews have a history of saying shit.

Not all Jews of course.


I'm sure xxxx hangs around with nice people but as a community Muslims have a history of saying shit.

Not all Muslims of course.

 

[Wilf]

I don't know whether to put this thread on ignore or buy some popcorn!

 

[8ball]

If people want to believe in sky pixies or fairies at the bottom of the garden, then as long as they're on our side of the barricades when it comes to the crunch ("the crunch" being international proletarian revolution) then I don't give a fuck.

Yeah, about that crunch - has a date been settled yet?

 

[Elpenor]

Oh, are all your posts freighted with irony? That’s certainly encouraging.

Some, though I couldn’t tell you which

 

[planetgeli]

Some, though I couldn’t tell you which

This whole thread has gone 4D chess. My head hurts.

Russell Brand is a cunt.

 

[Serge Forward]

I'm afraid people who pretend to believe in creationism for smaller class sizes may not be shoulder to shoulder with you come the crunch my friend

You're probably right. But I'm not really talking about burn-in-hell fash-Jesus types, US style fundamentalists, Islamists, the DUP, the "Wee Frees" and other bigoted twats. I suspect most people who believe in one or other of the major religions are probably not totally unreasonable. I suspect that more than a few are active union members, take part in strikes, campaign for refugees, LGBT+ rights and oppose all sorts of boss class ne'r-do-wells. Why would I want to offend them just because I don't share their religious beliefs?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Would you feel comfortable saying either of the following:

I'm sure xxxx hangs around with nice people but as a community Jews have a history of saying shit.

Not all Jews of course.


I'm sure xxxx hangs around with nice people but as a community Muslims have a history of saying shit.

Not all Muslims of course.

Pretty much. Admittedly I've not had Jews or Muslims say much shit directly to my face but have experienced plenty of it from Christians so that makes it easier.
Catholic family and all that.


I mean they are all working off the same crib notes.

 

[Serge Forward]

Yeah, about that crunch - has a date been settled yet?

Don't hold yer breath