Roosh V, Pro-Rape Pick Up Artist, Announces Worldwide 'Tribal Meetings'

[ViolentPanda]

But the problem with manipulating the psyche through ritual is that it by-passes reason. It assumes a materialist view of the self. The logical conclusion of such a view is that sensual pleasure is the highest good. Crowley's biography certainly suggests that he believed precisely that.

"The Confessions of..."? He wrote that for it sell to the hundreds of thousands of Daily Express readers who'd salivated over his every "outrage". It's not a convincing source, especially when read alongside the biographies of his contemporaries - most of whom weren't trying to capitalise on their notoriety.

Once one is convinced that sensual pleasure is the highest good (and I'd argue that this is the "default position" of most people in the C21st West), there is no moral obstacle to exploiting people for one's own pleasure. That's pretty much what Crowley did, and advocated. Today the popularity of Roosh indicates that such views are now a very serious problem.

You really shouldn't build on sand, phil.

 

[mentalchik]

It echoes everyone's opinion.

Obviously something is making people susceptible to Roosh and the like. Young men growing up without sympathetic male guidance is clearly the most likely candidate. If they can't get guidance from someone with their best interest at heart, they'll take it from those who only wish to exploit them for financial gain.

Or maybe, is it possible....that that 'something' is more likely to be our society's ingrained and rotten to the core value structure ???????? Male role models don't just have to be a 'father'...when we are surrounded and bombarded with fucked up messages that 'success' and 'material gain' are all important etc is it suprising that those that don't enjoy such things find other ways to express their feelings of not belonging

 

[ViolentPanda]

so what happened in your youth to produce the man we see today?

Forced to eat a plate of winkles, I'll be bound.

 

[phildwyer]

"The Confessions of..."? He wrote that for it sell to the hundreds of thousands of Daily Express readers who'd salivated over his every "outrage". It's not a convincing source, especially when read alongside the biographies of his contemporaries - most of whom weren't trying to capitalise on their notoriety.

Right. So his autobiography isn't a convincing source for his life.

I'll certainly believe that. It confirms my opinion of him as a contemptible shyster. But the fact remains that the image of himself that he projected by such means has become deeply influential on a certain kind of weird arrested adolescent (Pickman's Model step forward). He struck a strange chord in the modern mind--again much like Roosh.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And in which the kind of vitriolic contempt for women that we see in Roosh's writings is considered completely illegitimate..

Bullshit. Tell that to the victims of 'honour killings', where whole communities condone or excuse the murder of women who are deemed to have transgressed. No shortage of male role models there. They're the ones throwing the stones...

 

[phildwyer]

Or maybe, is it possible....that that 'something' is more likely to be our society's ingrained and rotten to the core value structure ???????? Male role models don't just have to be a 'father'...when we are surrounded and bombarded with fucked up messages that 'success' and 'material gain' are all important etc is it suprising that those that don't enjoy such things find other ways to express their feelings of not belonging

Agreed.

But a tight-knit family structure can exclude such influences, to some extent at least. The parent-child relationship is just about the only one that hasn't been completely degraded by the marketplace. To the extent that it has been so degraded, we can expect to see very serious psychological problems. I think that's what we're seeing in Roosh.

 

[Athos]

And in which the kind of vitriolic contempt for women that we see in Roosh's writings is considered completely illegitimate.

You might argue that old-style patriarchy oppresses women, and you'd be right. But it doesn't hate them in the way that Roosh does. That's a new thing, at least on this scale.

Tbh it beats me why he spends so much time chasing women since they evidently disgust him so much.

I'm sceptical about the nature and extent of the qualitative differences you see between Roosh's misogyny and, say, that of many men in Saudi Arabia - a culture with few absent fathers. I'm sure you can point towards Saudi's claims to be protecting women, but then Roosh claimed that was the basis of his proposed change of the law regarding rape on private premises.

 

[Pickman's model]

Right. So his autobiography isn't a convincing source for his life.

I'll certainly believe that. It confirms my opinion of him as a contemptible shyster. But the fact remains that the image of himself that he projected by such means has become deeply influential on a certain kind of weird arrested adolescent (Pickman's Model step forward). He struck a strange chord in the modern mind--again much like Roosh.

every claim you've made on this thread has turned to tinsel under the light of scrutiny. so you'll understand why i treat your opinion here with the contempt it deserves.

 

[Athos]

Pickman's model and phildwyer Can't you two give it a rest, now? You're going round and round, and the squabbling is not taking this potentially important thread any futrther forward. Thanks.

 

[phildwyer]

I'm sceptical about the nature and extent of the qualitative differences you see between Roosh's misogyny and, say, that of many men in Saudi Arabia - a culture with few absent fathers. I'm sure you can point towards Saudi's claims to be protecting women, but then Roosh claimed that was the basis of his proposed change of the law regarding rape on private premises.

Thought experiment: a Saudi man creates a website arguing that rape should be legalized on private property, and banging on about how women are all bitches, sluts, whores etc in a manner akin to Roosh.

What happens to him? How is his message received by the wider community?

 

[Athos]

Thought experiment: a Saudi man creates a website arguing that rape should be legalized on private property, and banging on about how women are all bitches, sluts, whores etc in a manner akin to Roosh.

What happens to him? How is his message received by the wider community?

There is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings. In addition, there is no prohibition against marital rape or statutory rape. So, I'm not sure Roosh's view would be considered too far from mainstream, actually!

 

[phildwyer]

There is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings. In addition, there is no prohibition against marital rape or statutory rape. So, I'm not sure Roosh's view would be considered too far from mainstream, actually!

Pshaw. Any Saudi (or anyone in a Muslim society) who wrote Rooshesque stuff like: "I fucked this fucking slut she was so drunk then I fucked this bitch who was so horny then I fucking fucked this other whore etc etc ad maximum nauseam..." would quite literally be torn to pieces by an angry mob.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Pshaw. Any Saudi (or anyone in a Muslim society) who wrote Rooshesque stuff like: "I fucked this fucking slut she was so drunk then I fucked this bitch who was so horny then I fucking fucked this other whore etc etc ad maximum nauseam..." would quite literally be torn to pieces by an angry mob.

More likely that the "angry mob" would insist on knowing who the women were.

 

[phildwyer]

More likely that the "angry mob" would insist on knowing who the women were.

I'm constantly amazed by how little Westerners understand of Muslim societies.

 

[Pickman's model]

More likely that the "angry mob" would insist on knowing who the women were.

yeh cos it always seems the woman gets killed while the man gets either let off or flogged

 

[Athos]

Pshaw. Any Saudi (or anyone in a Muslim society) who wrote Rooshesque stuff like: "I fucked this fucking slut she was so drunk then I fucked this bitch who was so horny then I fucking fucked this other whore etc etc ad maximum nauseam..." would quite literally be torn to pieces by an angry mob.

I'm not convinced that's accurate. But, if it's true, such action wouldn't be motivated by concern for women's rights, but by a hatred of sexual liberalism. Whichever way you cut it, Suadi Arabia is a profoundly misogynistic society, notwithstanding the absence of widespread female-led families. All of which belies your 'hunch' that misogyny is the product of a lack of male role models.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Pshaw. Any Saudi (or anyone in a Muslim society) who wrote Rooshesque stuff like: "I fucked this fucking slut she was so drunk then I fucked this bitch who was so horny then I fucking fucked this other whore etc etc ad maximum nauseam..." would quite literally be torn to pieces by an angry mob.

Perhaps. That doesn't stop a steady stream of rich Saudis from coming over to Britain and other places to do more or less what you describe. They may not write about it, but they certainly do it.

 

[Sirena]

Perhaps. That doesn't stop a steady stream of rich Saudis from coming over to Britain and other places to do more or less what you describe. They may not write about it, but they certainly do it.

And rich Americans, I should imagine. And rich Frenchmen.....

 

[phildwyer]

I'm not convinced that's accurate. But, if it's true, such action wouldn't be motivated by concern for women's rights, but by a hatred of sexual liberalism. Whichever way you cut it, Suadi Arabia is a profoundly misogynistic society, notwithstanding the absence of widespread female-led families. All of which belies your 'hunch' that misogyny is the product of a lack of male role models.

We need to distinguish between traditional patriarchy and Roosh.

Roosh is not a traditional patriarch. He's not a patriarch at all. He's a psychopath: someone with no feeling or concern for others. He loathes women and loses no opportunity to express his utter contempt for them.

Traditional patriarchy operates under a very different set of assumptions, prominent among which is that women need sympathetic male protection. That's certainly misguided, and arguably misogynist, but it's not "women are all dirty sluts and filthy whores, I hate them I hate them I hate them waaaah" which is what Roosh says. If I were a woman I know which I'd prefer.

 

[Athos]

We need to distinguish between traditional patriarchy and Roosh.

Roosh is not a traditional patriarch. He's not a patriarch at all. He's a psychopath: someone with no feeling or concern for others. He loathes women and loses no opportunity to express his utter contempt for them.

Traditional patriarchy operates under a very different set of assumptions, prominent among which is that women need sympathetic male protection. That's certainly misguided, and arguably misogynist, but it's not "women are all dirty sluts and filthy whores, I hate them I hate them I hate them waaaah" which is what Roosh says. If I were a woman I know which I'd prefer.

Which would you prefer if you were a Saudi woman, Phil? Which would harm you more?

 

[IC3D]

Any women who are outside of patriarchal control in many Muslim societies are thought of as whores for young men to fuck and share around, the majority are closely controlled by brothers and other family members. When as seen in Koln men come from these societies and see women free from the eye of the men in the family they assume they are whores. This is a pretty common view as it would have been fifty plus years ago even in much of the the UK. Its progress this isn't excepted in western society.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And rich Americans, I should imagine. And rich Frenchmen.....

Quite possibly. So? That doesn't alter the point one bit.

 

[IC3D]

Roosh and his crew are inadequates for whom a patriarchal society would suit down to the ground.

 

[phildwyer]

Which would you prefer if you were a Saudi woman, Phil?

In a Hobson's Choice between traditional patriarchy and Roosh? Traditional patriarchy every time.

Which would harm you more?

Roosh, every time.

Does anyone feel differently?

 

[Athos]

In a Hobson's Choice between traditional patriarchy and Roosh? Traditional patriarchy every time.



Roosh, every time.

Does anyone feel differently?

Sorry, but are you seriously saying that Roosh causes greater harm to Saudi women than is caused by Saudi Arabia's culture of misogyny?

 

[phildwyer]

Sorry, but are you seriously saying that Roosh causes greater harm to Saudi women than is caused by Saudi Arabia's culture of misogyny?

I'm saying that he would if he could.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

We need to distinguish between traditional patriarchy and Roosh.

Roosh is not a traditional patriarch. He's not a patriarch at all. He's a psychopath: someone with no feeling or concern for others. He loathes women and loses no opportunity to express his utter contempt for them.

Traditional patriarchy operates under a very different set of assumptions, prominent among which is that women need sympathetic male protection. That's certainly misguided, and arguably misogynist, but it's not "women are all dirty sluts and filthy whores, I hate them I hate them I hate them waaaah" which is what Roosh says. If I were a woman I know which I'd prefer.

Well, I can ignore and/or laugh at Roosh. If I lived under a traditional patriarchy such as Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't be able to ignore or laugh at that.

 

[phildwyer]

Any women who are outside of patriarchal control in many Muslim societies are thought of as whores for young men to fuck and share around

This really isn't true. This is a Western myth.

 

[Athos]

I'm saying that he would if he could.

But he can't. So, as things stand, more harm is done to Saudi women by Saudi Arabia's culture of miisogyny, and that exists notwithstanding the fact that there's no widespread absenteeism of fathers.

So, phildwyer your case is that there's a qualitiative difference between misogyny and a hatred of women, and that the latter is more likley to be caused by greater exposure to women than to men i.e. being raised exclusively by a woman? And that's a 'hunch' absent any evidence?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm saying that he would if he could.

but he doesn't.