RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

[existentialist]

Seems he got away with a fair amount until then. Flashing at the very least.

A responsible police force would be looking at all of the unsolved sexual assaults of any kind which he might have been in a position to perpetrate. Assuming it wasn't a different police officer

 

[wtfftw]

They're not going to dig into this. They're not going to stop stop and search on young black men. Nothing changes.

 

[Poot]

Seems unusual to suddenly commit a rape and murder aged 48 with no previous.

He will be that creepy bloke whose patter makes everyone go, 'steady on, mate'. Women around him will feel uneasy but they wont know why until he gets 'a bit carried away' and then, well, i was drunk, he's a copper, who's going to believe me?

The conviction rate for rape is pathetic. He will have raped before. You have to be extremely dogged to get any sort of result for sexual assaults. THAT is the culture that needs to change.

 

[ruffneck23]

So it's a whole life sentence then with no release ever then. Good

 

[moomoo]

The impact statement from Sarah Everard's mother is a very moving and eloquent piece of writing, is worth reading and reflecting on instead of fantasising over what will happen to her murderer in jail.

They read this out on the radio just now. So moving and utterly heartbreaking. Gave me shivers.

 

[Yossarian]

Seems unusual to suddenly commit a rape and murder aged 48 with no previous.

There was a similar case in Canada around 10 years ago - a high-ranking 47-year-old military officer with no criminal record raped and murdered two women, including one under his command. The investigation found that over the previous few years, he had escalated to sexual assault after breaking into more than 80 homes and stealing the underwear of women and girls.

 

[Athos]

There was a similar case in Canada around 10 years ago - a high-ranking 47-year-old military officer with no criminal record raped and murdered two women, including one under his command. The investigation found that over the previous few years, he had escalated to sexual assault after breaking into more than 80 homes and stealing the underwear of women and girls.

Colonel Russell Williams. There's something especially disturbing about these sorts of things being done by people trained to keep their emotions in check (rather than the more 'typical' compulsive psychopaths).

 

[two sheds]

Do you think Couzens' barrister is on that? Who pays?

Barely 5ft 7in, Jim Sturman, QC, is a master of controlled verbal aggression. He is also the first barrister to earn £1 million from legal aid: £1,180,000 for the financial year 2004-05.

My plumber gets £90 an hour. Young barristers can get £45 a day

“There are some very spiteful people in this profession. I’ve worked my backside off for 24 years and to have someone say it’s undeserved or a nice earner is...” A small, angry figure holds himself

www.thetimes.co.uk

I was thinking more generally tbh - tax barristers at the top can charge £1000+/hour. I admit I'm somewhat jaundiced - provincial barrister who gave me some fucking atrocious advice 20 years ago charged out at £250/hour.

Defendant pays (or I presume someone may be paying for them) as I understand it, and if found innocent can reclaim at legal aid rates.

 

[danny la rouge]

Seems unusual to suddenly commit a rape and murder aged 48 with no previous.

Indeed. I don’t think you wake up one morning and decide to kidnap, rape, murder and desecrate someone as a first rung in the ladder.

The reason the Met chief is facing questions is that this really does pose questions as to the ethos of the organisation, not least because of the way they handled the vigil etc, in fuller possession of the facts than we were at the time. And both of those issues do go to the top.

 

[skyscraper101]

Nothing other than a life sentence could be handed out here. It was completely premeditated and the burning and dumping of the remains and destroying evidence further compounds this.

Goes to prove though just how thick you can still be to get so high up in the police. For all his efforts to hide his tracks, he was tracked by the most basic methods. Cell site mobile phone data to the site of the murder, and he used his own name and bank card to hire the rental car which got him caught on CCTV. Anybody with even a passing interest in crime knows this is beyond careless.

 

[Numbers]

Sentencing remarks, a very hard read

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Wayne-Couzens-Sentencing-Remarks.pdf

 

[ruffneck23]

Nothing other than a life sentence could be handed out here. It was completely premeditated and the burning and dumping of the remains and destroying evidence further compounds this.

Goes to prove though just how thick you can still be to get so high up in the police. For all his efforts to hide his tracks, he was tracked by the most basic methods. Cell site mobile phone data to the site of the murder, and he used his own name and bank card to hire the rental car which got him caught on CCTV. Anybody with even a passing interest in crime knows this is beyond careless.

In my experience the police are not known for their intelligence

 

[Voley]

Just been hearing the testimony from her family. Really painful to hear.

I'm glad he'll never be released but, fuck me, the Met have some serious questions to answer.

 

[trashpony]

Wasn't there some kind of self-injury incident soon after his arrest? Banging his head against a wall, or something?

Leaving my professional hat firmly off, I think that he's probably got quite a strong sense of entitlement, and is probably completely disorientated by what has happened - "people like me don't get to account for our acts". I think that's going to fester away inside him, alongside the realisation of the total loss of control he has over his life, or anyone else (note all the manipulative attempts to get off the hook), and eventually the only thing he'll have left to control is his own mortality.

Professional hat back on, I do find myself wondering what happens to someone to make them become someone like this: to be able to cold-bloodedly, and in full public view, abduct a completely innocent person, and - intimately - commit those acts of violence upon them, without at any point during quite a long period of time stopping and wondering WTF he's doing...that's some pretty messed-up thinking.

We would do well to not just focus on retribution, but do some careful consideration about understanding people like this, if only so we can spot risky signs earlier and do something about them. And that extends to the ethos of the environment he worked in - how someone who was nicknamed "the rapist" and who got away with a number of sexual offences, despite that...these are things that need looking at deeply and urgently. Because he won't be the only person like that in the police force - I'd imagine that police work is very attractive to people like Couzens.

Men like this. Not people. Men.

 

[DaveCinzano]

The culture of not just enabling and protecting, but also nurturing this sort of man, persists. Elsewhere today the Met leadership has been found to have facilitated another sexual predator, who used his position as an undercover officer to target women, in a scathing Investigatory Powers Tribunal judgment:

The Tribunal concluded that a number of factors established a breach of those positive obligations: the inadequacy of Kennedy’s training with regard to sexual relationships; the inadequate supervision and oversight; allowing the same principal cover officer to remain in place throughout the operation; the failure of senior officers, who either knew of the sexual relationship, chose not to know or were incompetent and negligent in not following up on clear signs; and the failure to take steps to prevent a sexual relationship from developing.

Judgments - The Investigatory Powers Tribunal

Search for past judgments from independent judicial body, The Investigatory Powers Tribunal.

www.ipt-uk.com

 

[Pickman's model]

Nothing other than a life sentence could be handed out here. It was completely premeditated and the burning and dumping of the remains and destroying evidence further compounds this.

Goes to prove though just how thick you can still be to get so high up in the police. For all his efforts to hide his tracks, he was tracked by the most basic methods. Cell site mobile phone data to the site of the murder, and he used his own name and bank card to hire the rental car which got him caught on CCTV. Anybody with even a passing interest in crime knows this is beyond careless.

constable isn't a high rank in the metropolitan police

 

[skyscraper101]

constable isn't a high rank in the metropolitan police

Sure but he was serving as a firearms-trained parliamentary and diplomatic protection officer at the time of the killing. And he had previously been in the Civil Nuclear Constabulary since 2011

 

[ruffneck23]

Pritler needs to go too, but we know that wont happen.

 

[equationgirl]

Hard to imagine a work environment where a nickname like that could be considered banter.

Welcome to engineering.

I asked a colleague at another company not to make rape jokes. I was superpolite about it. He called me a bitch and carried on.

With respect to remarks around the nickname some of his colleagues gave him, I was coming on here to post that there's no way he hasn't committed crimes, probably rapes, possibly others before.

You don't wake up one morning and decide tonight's the night for your plan to kidnap, rape and murder a young woman.

 

[trashpony]

I absolutely agree with you equationgirl. This is a pattern of behaviour. He will have been raping women for years.

 

[ruffneck23]

I asked a colleague at another company not to make rape jokes. I was superpolite about it. He called me a bitch and carried on.

I had a similar experience at a very corporate place I worked at, this twat bloke was making rape jokes in the office and when I told him not to I was looked at like I was some kind of nutter. To my shame I didnt go to HR. I would do these days though.

 

[sojourner]

This ^ kind of thing seems to me to be part of the problem -- men (I'm guessing you're male marshall?) coming over all violent and vengeful when it comes to protecting their womenfolk or defending their honour or whatever.

I don't want men to protect me or get all violent over it, I just don't want this shit to happen. Which involves preventing this stuff from happening in the first place rather than reacting violently after the fact.

(I'm not sure I've expressed myself very well here but hopefully you get my point.)

This.

I had to restrain my dad and brother from beating up the fella who'd beaten me for a year, then later, the cunt who tried to kill me.

I had several hard men of my acquaintance quietly offer to kidnap/torture/kill the one who stabbed me. All I wanted was for the violence to be over, and to move on. Although in both cases I wanted them to feel the same fear I had, and tbh I wanted them both to die (as in, just not be alive anymore), but I did not want to be the person who made that happen. The thought of it made me feel dirty, and terrible - no matter what they'd done, I'm still not a person who could be responsible in any way for taking a life, or for inflicting pain or fear on that level.

I'd far rather they just hadn't fucking done what they'd done. I didn't wanna double up on the violence.

 

[equationgirl]

I had a similar experience at a very corporate place I worked at, this twat bloke was making rape jokes in the office and when I told him not to I was looked at like I was some kind of nutter. To my shame I didnt go to HR. I would do these days though.8

In my case it was a single instance - he did at least not make similar jokes again in my hearing. I did not go to HR, as they had already proven themselves useless at best and just biased at worst. Plus the head of HR at the time had a been a site worker and rarely lifted a finger against such behaviour.

 

[ruffneck23]

 

[Sue]

I'm not sure why she can't believe it tbh.

 

[existentialist]

Colonel Russell Williams. There's something especially disturbing about these sorts of things being done by people trained to keep their emotions in check (rather than the more 'typical' compulsive psychopaths).

I'd say that it was a very likely potential consequence of training people "to keep their emotions in check". Because, when you encourage - or coerce - people to repress their emotions, some of those feelings are going to emerge in less-expected directions. For example, people with a strong desire to control or coerce others are often people who have experienced emotional difficulties around control elsewhere in their lives.

Flinging labels like "compulsive psychopath" at people serves no good end - if we want to prevent stuff like this happening, rather than merely froth at the terribleness of it all, we need to step back from glib conclusions and labelling, and start looking at underlying causes, early warning signs, etc.

 

[existentialist]

Men like this. Not people. Men.

Fine. Men like this.

 

[equationgirl]

I just worry how many women had a close call with this guy, how many were raped, how many he almost killed and how many women he's killed before her. I would not be at all surprised if there wasn't something like Operation Anagram set up to investigate the wider picture.

This was too slick, too practised, too obvious. It was done in Brixton ffs. There were other people about.

 

[equationgirl]

And the Russell Williams stuff was pretty sickening stuff too.

 

[pogofish]

I also really feel for the woman who witnessed Sarah Everard being put into the police car in handcuffs and who reasonably enough assumed it was a standard arrest. She's probably wondering if she could/should have done something to prevent it, despite not having realised at the time anything was wrong.

Years ago, I had an encounter with a plain clothes officer arresting a woman on the street - Well, she was bent across the bonnet of my car whilst being cuffed and was begging me to help her.

The officer was kind of occupied and unable to produce a warrant card but gave me their name and directed me to call the main station, where they confirmed (without giving any details) that this was a genuine arrest.