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RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

Chilli.s said:
I think a copper committing this type of crime in this type of way should face a far far greater punishment than their crime normally incurs. Because a message needs to be sent to serving officers as a deterrent and spur for them to change their collective "us and them" view of themselves. Things have to change.
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Yep, and why not? Because when someone hurts a copper, the sentencing always seems to be harsher, doesn't it? So it should work the other way round too, in fairness.
 
I have to say, having found the post in question, and seen how many people are seeking to either justify his position, or paint the outrage at what happened to Sarah Everard as somehow victimising of the police, that my hopes for any significant kind of organisational change have fallen even further.

And yes, the vast majority of the people being outraged at the, er, outrage are men.
 
krtek a houby said:
Hopefully. Society is still bigger than the cops. Isn't it?
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Yes, and I’m seeing people in civil society who’d normally be backing the cops now with “one bad apple” stuff coming to the realisation that it isn’t at all. Like the Sky journalist whose tweet was quoted above:




She “can’t quite believe” what many of us have long known. But she’s coming to terms with the facts. That’s change.
 
equationgirl said:
I don't blame the couple who drove past and assumed it was a legit arrest by a plain clothes person. But what would have given me pause would have been a) a lack of a flashing dome light on the dashboard and b) his lack of partner, with possibly c) a lack of any police markings on his clothing, such as an over jacket or hiz viz, or even police written on a baseball cap.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course
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I've been stopped by plain clothes who were in a very tatty old Peugeot. They produced a warrant card and there was two of them, but they didn't have anything that was marked police and the car had nothing in or on it that would have stood out as a pig car.

I think more people do pay attention to police arrests these days and they're more inclined to video cops doing the dirty, but I think it's more a spillover from George Floyd and locally because of couple of people have been killed by the police recently. The more people who do this the more accountable the police will have to become.
 
Chilli.s said:
I think a copper committing this type of crime in this type of way should face a far far greater punishment than their crime normally incurs. Because a message needs to be sent to serving officers as a deterrent and spur for them to change their collective "us and them" view of themselves. Things have to change.
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The sentencing remarks make clear that the fact he was Old Bill and used that position to commit the offences (used police kit and more importantly, the authority that being a pig gave him to convince/coerce her to get in the car) is the reason for a whole life order rather than a fixed tariff.
 
sojourner said:
This.

I had to restrain my dad and brother from beating up the fella who'd beaten me for a year, then later, the cunt who tried to kill me.

I had several hard men of my acquaintance quietly offer to kidnap/torture/kill the one who stabbed me. All I wanted was for the violence to be over, and to move on. Although in both cases I wanted them to feel the same fear I had, and tbh I wanted them both to die (as in, just not be alive anymore), but I did not want to be the person who made that happen. The thought of it made me feel dirty, and terrible - no matter what they'd done, I'm still not a person who could be responsible in any way for taking a life, or for inflicting pain or fear on that level.

I'd far rather they just hadn't fucking done what they'd done. I didn't wanna double up on the violence.
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That's horrible soj mate.

Sadly it (violence) was my default response just like your Dad and brother if anyone I loved was hurt in any way, no questions asked, and even more sadly I did exercise it quite extremely at times - it used to make me, or I thought it made me feel good about the situation but never those who I done it on behalf of, which is a joke because like you they never wanted it. It took a long time to change that process.
 
existentialist said:
I have to say, having found the post in question, and seen how many people are seeking to either justify his position, or paint the outrage at what happened to Sarah Everard as somehow victimising of the police, that my hopes for any significant kind of organisational change have fallen even further.

And yes, the vast majority of the people being outraged at the, er, outrage are men.
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Almost as though, if those people were to hold, say, a candlelit vigil, the police might take some kind of offence and seek redress?
 
Numbers said:
That's horrible soj mate.

Sadly it (violence) was my default response just like your Dad and brother if anyone I loved was hurt in any way, no questions asked, and even more sadly I did exercise it quite extremely at times - it used to make me, or I thought it made me feel good about the situation but never those who I done it on behalf of, which is a joke because like you they never wanted it. It took a long time to change that process.
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Yes, I think it likely just adds to the victim's sense of powerlessness.
 
Numbers said:
That's horrible soj mate.

Sadly it (violence) was my default response just like your Dad and brother if anyone I loved was hurt in any way, no questions asked, and even more sadly I did exercise it quite extremely at times - it used to make me, or I thought it made me feel good about the situation but never those who I done it on behalf of, which is a joke because like you they never wanted it. It took a long time to change that process.
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Liked, for your honesty and insight
 
moomoo said:
I feel really sorry for his wife and kids as well. They’ve probably had to change their names and go into hiding. And I bet he was an abusive husband.
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Not necessarily. There are serial killer/rapist cases where the wife is happy and unaware of their husbands psycopathic tendencies as well as cases where the killers wife or mother are abusive. Sonia Sutcliffe for instance was considered the domineering one in the relationship and used to slap Peter about apparently.
 
Numbers said:
That's horrible soj mate.

Sadly it (violence) was my default response just like your Dad and brother if anyone I loved was hurt in any way, no questions asked, and even more sadly I did exercise it quite extremely at times - it used to make me, or I thought it made me feel good about the situation but never those who I done it on behalf of, which is a joke because like you they never wanted it. It took a long time to change that process.
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I'm very glad you did though, in the end. And you've gained insight. I do understand that response - if anyone did anything to my daughter, I would probably feel the same way. But as you say - the person you did it on behalf of did not want you to do it. I felt like I was going mad, trying to stop them, just in a tornado of violence and I couldn't stand it.
 
Poot said:
Almost as though, if those people were to hold, say, a candlelit vigil, the police might take some kind of offence and seek redress?
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I think that falls well within the realms of possibility. And they would also do the very best they could - as they did with the previous vigil - to traduce the motives of those participating, and try to excuse their response on some ironic-if-it-wasn't-tragic pretext of public safety,. They would genuinely believe that such behaviour showed them to be different from the likes of Sarah Everard's persecutor.

And the closing of ranks has already begun. Dick has Patel's support, and that's as much of an obligation not to change a fucking thing as there could possibly be.
 
souljacker said:
Not necessarily. There are serial killer/rapist cases where the wife is happy and unaware of their husbands psycopathic tendencies as well as cases where the killers wife or mother are abusive. Sonia Sutcliffe for instance was considered the domineering one in the relationship and used to slap Peter about apparently.
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From Fulford LJ's Sentencing remarks (my bold):
Your wife and children, who on all the evidence, are entirely blameless will have to live with the ignominy of your dreadful crimes for the rest of their lives.
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From the sentencing remarks:
The most important question in this sentencing exercise, therefore, revolves around a question of principle: if a police officer uses his office to kidnap, rape and murder a victim, is the seriousness of the offence exceptionally high, such that it ought to be treated in the same way as the other examples set out in paragraph 2(2). In my judgment the police are in a unique position, which is essentially different from any other public servants. They have powers of coercion and control that are in an exceptional category. In this country it is expected that the police will act in the public interest; indeed, the authority of the police is to a truly significant extent dependent on the public’s consent, and the power of officers to detain, arrest and otherwise control important aspects of our lives is only effective because of the critical trust that we repose in the constabulary, that they will act lawfully and in the best interests of society. If that is undermined, one of the enduring safeguards of law and order in this country is inevitably jeopardised. In my judgment, the misuse of a police officer’s role such as occurred in this case in order to kidnap, rape and murder a lone victim is of equal seriousness as a murder carried out for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. All of these situations attack different aspects of the fundamental underpinnings of our democratic way of life. It is this vital factor which in my view makes the seriousness of this case exceptionally high. Self-evidently, it would need for the police officer to have used his role as a constable in a critical way to facilitate the commission of the offence; if his professional occupation was of little or no relevance to the offending, then these considerations clearly would not apply.
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The police themselves would do well to take these comments very much to heart.
 
Numbers said:
That's horrible soj mate.

Sadly it (violence) was my default response just like your Dad and brother if anyone I loved was hurt in any way, no questions asked, and even more sadly I did exercise it quite extremely at times - it used to make me, or I thought it made me feel good about the situation but never those who I done it on behalf of, which is a joke because like you they never wanted it. It took a long time to change that process.
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I'm glad you have processed that.

I get so frustrated when I see guys going 'If that happened to my sister/girlfriend/wife etc I'd kill/fuck up the guy that did it' as if women should go 'Oh thanks for avenging me manly man!'

What women want and need is men to call out their mate/family member/colleague's misogynistic and abusive behaviour. Tell him the rape joke's not on, stop him following that lone woman out of the pub, if he boasts about a clearly exploitative encounter with a woman tell him that's gross and wrong.
 
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