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RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

The Guardian front page right now is just a wall of crimes by men against women - Sarah Everard, Sabina Nessa, Kate Wilson (duped by undercover cop Mark Kennedy) and Elise Christie (speed skater who has revealed she was raped at 19). How do women cope with this world of non-stop threats? Why are there so many savage, predatory men?
 
I'm glad you have processed that.

I get so frustrated when I see guys going 'If that happened to my sister/girlfriend/wife etc I'd kill/fuck up the guy that did it' as if women should go 'Oh thanks for avenging me manly man!'

What women want and need is men to call out their mate/family member/colleague's misogynistic and abusive behaviour. Tell him the rape joke's not on, stop him following that lone woman out of the pub, if he boasts about a clearly exploitative encounter with a woman tell him that's gross and wrong.
This in spades. And don't be that guy who apologises after the event to the woman his friend's been hassling (for example), excusing his behaviour because he's drunk or has just split up with his GF or whatever. Tell your friend it's unacceptable at the time and explain exactly why. This sounds like a small thing but it's really common (and very annoying) and would IME go some small way to changing the overall atmosphere.
 
The Guardian front page right now is just a wall of crimes by men against women - Sarah Everard, Sabina Nessa, Kate Wilson (duped by undercover cop Mark Kennedy) and Elise Christie (speed skater who has revealed she was raped at 19). How do women cope with this world of non-stop threats? Why are there so many savage, predatory men?
I can tell you how I cope, other women may differ.

I only use licensed black cabs, and note the number as I get in.

I don't walk around wearing headphones, day or night, and I pay attention to my surroundings.

I let people know when I get home safely after I meet them.

Truth is, I could do a million different coping mechanism or strategies but at the end of the day, if a man wants to attack someone and he choose me, realistically there's unlikely to be much I can do. Fighting back might not an option, or be dangerous to me.

I like men for the most part, I work in a male dominated industry and try not to let the predators make me afraid of every man on the planet. But there's no foolproof way to avoid predators.
 
Is there a way to reduce the number of men who become predators? Do they learn to see women as prey because of their parenting, or school experiences, or films/TV? I can't think of any measures being taken to curb predatory/violent appetites. Have we all accepted that some men are just born with these tendencies? It's not enough to ask women to be careful and/or for policing to be better....can't we do something which stops men wanting to do these things?
 
Is there a way to reduce the number of men who become predators? Do they learn to see women as prey because of their parenting, or school experiences, or films/TV? I can't think of any measures being taken to curb predatory/violent appetites. Have we all accepted that some men are just born with these tendencies? It's not enough to ask women to be careful and/or for policing to be better....can't we do something which stops men wanting to do these things?
Read this book if you want to get really depressed.

Men Who Hate Women: From Incels to Pickup Artists, the Truth about Extreme Misogyny and how it Affects Us All Men Who Hate Women: From Incels to Pickup Artists, the Truth about Extreme Misogyny and how it Affects Us All - Google Search
 
View attachment 290722

Apologies if this has already been posted but it’s important and needs to be seen widely.
This advice is well-intentioned but I fear it's unrealistic, as anyone who's been arrested or had any hostile dealings with the police will know. 'Resisting arrested calmly' could just get you tazered and/or flung to the ground and handcuffed. It might be possible if among a group of people who're bystanders, but otherwise I doubt it. Similarly with no.2, quite likely they'd just grab your phone.

The burden should really be on the police now to issue guidance for male officers not to make arrests of women if unaccompanied by a colleague - but this won't happen either
 
Is there a way to reduce the number of men who become predators? Do they learn to see women as prey because of their parenting, or school experiences, or films/TV? I can't think of any measures being taken to curb predatory/violent appetites. Have we all accepted that some men are just born with these tendencies? It's not enough to ask women to be careful and/or for policing to be better....can't we do something which stops men wanting to do these things?
I think sometimes these men are 'othered' when people say things like, 'a real man doesn't beat up women,' because the venn diagram of 'people who beat up women' and 'men' has a pretty fucking big overlap, actually. But yeah, I do think it's about childhood, culture, role models, and of course the patriarchy makes a less than discreet appearance in all of these, but your post is quite positive actually, how can we change the culture? Women, especially feminists, have been trying since time immemorial. It's mainly like hitting your head against a wall, unfortunately. Just look at some of the threads here!
 
Is there a way to reduce the number of men who become predators? Do they learn to see women as prey because of their parenting, or school experiences, or films/TV? I can't think of any measures being taken to curb predatory/violent appetites. Have we all accepted that some men are just born with these tendencies? It's not enough to ask women to be careful and/or for policing to be better....can't we do something which stops men wanting to do these things?
These are the questions that need a proper examination/investigation/studies. It's not happening, each horrific crime against women is seen as individual, rather than as part of a whole, a pattern, an entrenched behaviour, so nothing ultimately gets done about preventing it in the first place. It's obviously tied up with how men are raised, our society, toxic masculinity, patriarchy etc, it's not just one thing.

I feel like screaming from the top of a very high building WHY WON'T YOU DO SOMETHING?
 
I'd rather not know about what men do after they become predators. Trying to be constructive by thinking about dealing with the root causes of their behaviour.
The book is more about how men get drawn into that world, at many different levels and what we should be doing to prevent it (at the moment fuck all). Basically men are radicalised in the same way as terrorists are but of course even though thousands of women die at the hands of men all the resources are put into counter terrorism. It sucks and shows just how low on the priority women actually are
ETA some of the interviews she did with school kids are frankly shocking and shows how pervasive it is
 
These are the questions that need a proper examination/investigation/studies. It's not happening, each horrific crime against women is seen as individual, rather than as part of a whole, a pattern, an entrenched behaviour, so nothing ultimately gets done about preventing it in the first place. It's obviously tied up with how men are raised, our society, toxic masculinity, patriarchy etc, it's not just one thing.

I feel like screaming from the top of a very high building WHY WON'T YOU DO SOMETHING?
I feel exactly the same. There ought to be a never-ending national programme to work on the root causes. But there's nothing. Nothing at all.
 
When I was a kid I thought that equality in all decision making process should be made balanced between sexes. ie. a male judge in court had to also have a female judge on the bench at the same time, equal numbers of m/f MPs, councillors etc etc. Yeah, it's a child's theory, but not without some merit

It is all about money and power, always
 
Is there a way to reduce the number of men who become predators? Do they learn to see women as prey because of their parenting, or school experiences, or films/TV? I can't think of any measures being taken to curb predatory/violent appetites. Have we all accepted that some men are just born with these tendencies? It's not enough to ask women to be careful and/or for policing to be better....can't we do something which stops men wanting to do these things?
I am not the person with expertise in this area, plus there's no single way to approach this.

I understand sometimes it's learned behaviour, seeing dad only objectifying women especially mum and sisters or daughters, sometimes it can be mental health issues - Sutcliffe thought he was cleansing the world of prostitutes (at least in part) although started attacking women who were clearly not. The Madonna/Whore complex crops up a lot.

Bundy was in part replaying revenge against a former girlfriend, but had abuse in his childhood.

Sometimes, it is clinical psychopathy and experts describe them as 'born without a conscience' or 'born broken'. Nothing, no intervention, can fix their underlying pathology.

I am no expert, this is just off the top of my head.
 
When I was a kid I thought that equality in all decision making process should be made balanced between sexes. ie. a male judge in court had to also have a female judge on the bench at the same time, equal numbers of m/f MPs, councillors etc etc. Yeah, it's a child's theory, but not without some merit

It is all about money and power, always

We had Thatcher as PM. And that was great…
 
'Resisting arrested calmly' could just get you tazered and/or flung to the ground and handcuffed. It might be possible if among a group of people who're bystanders, but otherwise I doubt it.
I know, having been arrested. And I wouldn’t have posted it had it not come from a woman’s organisation. But sadly, the cops aren’t going to change. So society is going to have to learn to stop trusting the police by default, and learn some tactics to use to do that. If even people (and I’m including men here) manage to phone their emergency contacts that would be an improvement.
 
I know, having been arrested. And I wouldn’t have posted it had it not come from a woman’s organisation. But sadly, the cops aren’t going to change. So society is going to have to learn to stop trusting the police by default, and learn some tactics to use to do that. If even people (and I’m including men here) manage to phone their emergency contacts that would be an improvement.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to request some kind of witness to an arrest. Do lone officers even make arrests? He relied on her deference and trust to abduct her.
 
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to request some kind of witness to an arrest. Do lone officers even make arrests? He relied on her deference and trust to abduct her.
'While police officers often patrol in pairs, whether on foot or in cars, this is not always the case. In 2018 the Met recorded 375,760 instances of “single crewing”.'

Presumably includes arrests but I haven't read the doc linked to.

 
'While police officers often patrol in pairs, whether on foot or in cars, this is not always the case. In 2018 the Met recorded 375,760 instances of “single crewing”.'

Presumably includes arrests but I haven't read the doc linked to,


Respect for the rapid research!
 
Do lone officers even make arrests?
Yes, I've seen it done. Long time ago. Plain clothes cop arresting an alleged drug dealer, was with a few friends at the time, weren't sure what was going on so we queried it. Can't recall if we'd asked to see his number / warrant card, but if so I expect he'd told us to piss off. These days you could take a photo, if he was in the process of an abduction maybe that would deter him?
 
I know, having been arrested. And I wouldn’t have posted it had it not come from a woman’s organisation. But sadly, the cops aren’t going to change. So society is going to have to learn to stop trusting the police by default, and learn some tactics to use to do that. If even people (and I’m including men here) manage to phone their emergency contacts that would be an improvement.

Pretty much every police response in that piece says "just carry on as usual". There seems to be no acknowledgement - let alone remorse - that a police officer was able to abuse his position in this way. And THAT is just enabling behaviour for those police officers - and let's face it, this one was not unique - who do choose to abuse the privileges afforded to them in their work.

If ever "root and branch" change were needed, this is an indication as to why. This isn't about apples, rotten or otherwise.
 
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