RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

[planetgeli]

No, he'd be effectively accepting he was causally responsible i.e. that his acts caused her death, but that he wasn't entirely culpable for that.

I don't think that's how it works though. Diminished responsibility, from the accused's side, is about denial of responsibility. You don't start by saying "I was responsible....but only a bit responsible".

 

[Jimbeau]

I guess this is the bit where we have to be careful not to speculate on what he might be trying to achieve with those pleas...

Absolutely. Awful and compelling though this case is to discuss, it's now sub judice and debate on these public boards might be seen as prejudicial. Have asked the mods to take a look.

 

[Athos]

I don't think that's how it works though. Diminished responsibility, from the accused's side, is about denial of responsibility. You don't start by saying "I was responsible....but only a bit responsible".

That is literally what diminished responsibility is! And why, unlike insanity, it's only a partial defence i.e. reduces murder to manslaughter, rather than acquittal.

 

[Pickman's model]

Absolutely. Awful and compelling though this case is to discuss, it's now sub judice and debate on these public boards might be seen as prejudicial. Have asked the mods to take a look.

it's ok, we already have our resident legal mind on the case

 

[Athos]

Absolutely. Awful and compelling though this case is to discuss, it's now sub judice and debate on these public boards might be seen as prejudicial. Have asked the mods to take a look.

I appreciate that this is well-meaning, but I think you're overreacting; there's been nothing said here that comes remotely close to a substantial risk of serious prejudice.

 

[Jimbeau]

I appreciate that this is well-meaning, but I think you're overreacting; there's been nothing said here that comes remotely close to a substantial risk of serious prejudice.

No, of course not - not yet. But debates do run very quickly and these boards have a broad readership. Putting a watch on this thread is only sensible, in my view. The Websleuths forum closed its threads on this case a long while ago.

 

[Athos]

No, of course not - not yet. But debates do run very quickly and these boards have a broad readership. Putting a watch on this thread is only sensible, in my view. The Websleuths forum closed its threads on this case a long while ago.

Fair enough. Don't think it needs locking yet, just a bit of discretion about what we post.

 

[Pickman's model]

The Websleuths forum closed its threads on this case a long while ago.

i wonder they are as i imagine them, superannuated velma dinkleys and norville rogers living out their past glories on the interweb

 

[Jimbeau]

i wonder they are as i imagine them, superannuated velma dinkleys and norville rogers living out their past glories on the interweb

Yoinks!

 

[tim]

I'd have thought that fact that he has admitted kidnap and rape, would make it less likely that there would be much less of a risk of the discussion here breaking sub judice laws. And anyway, the focus here isn't on him as much as on the misogyny and general inadequacy of the police in general.

 

[spanglechick]

What’s the sentencing differential, potentially? He’s got kidnap and rape, reduction for guilty plea but aggravating factor of him using his position as police to commit the crimes.

What sort of difference would there be between manslaughter with no guilty plea, and murder with a guilty plea?

 

[Raheem]

What’s the sentencing differential, potentially? He’s got kidnap and rape, reduction for guilty plea but aggravating factor of him using his position as police to commit the crimes.

What sort of difference would there be between manslaughter with no guilty plea, and murder with a guilty plea?

The cause of death seems to be compression of the neck, so I think it might be hard to concoct a manslaughter defence that a jury will accept, given the known circumstances.

In the event that they do, though, the maximum sentence is still life, and the judge has to consider giving a life sentence if the defendant represents a danger to the public.

Ianal, but it seems like there are a lot of hurdles to getting anything other than a very heavy sentence, given that it looks like insanity is not going to be pleaded.

 

[Athos]

What’s the sentencing differential, potentially? He’s got kidnap and rape, reduction for guilty plea but aggravating factor of him using his position as police to commit the crimes.

What sort of difference would there be between manslaughter with no guilty plea, and murder with a guilty plea?

Murder is a mandatory life sentence, with the possibility of a whole life order, so potentially quite a signify difference.

 

[spanglechick]

Murder is a mandatory life sentence, with the possibility of a whole life order, so potentially quite a signify difference.

But without a whole life tariff isn’t life potentially only twenty years or simething?

 

[LeytonCatLady]

But without a whole life tariff isn’t life potentially only twenty years or simething?

20 years minimum, hopefully! He might be able to apply for parole after then, but that doesn't mean he'd be successful. I think he will get life though, because of the publicity and the fact they can't be seen to let coppers get away with this kind of thing just because of their "authority figure" status.

 

[Athos]

But without a whole life tariff isn’t life potentially only twenty years or simething?

For a defendant that's over 18, the minimum term can be as low as 15 years, with the potential for further reduction for mitigating factors like previously good character, a guilty plea, and time spent on remand. But a more likely starting point in a case of a murder by a person in a position of authority and for a sexual motive is 30 years.

 

[Mr paulee]

Police breached fundamental rights at Sarah Everard vigil and Bristol protests, inquiry finds

Police ‘failed to understand their legal duties’ and used excessive force, MPs find

www.independent.co.uk

 

[planetgeli]

Cunt took his time.

Sarah Everard murder: Met PC Wayne Couzens pleads guilty

Met Police chief Cressida Dick says "everyone in policing" feels betrayed by Sarah Everard's killer.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sue]

Cunt took his time.

Sarah Everard murder: Met PC Wayne Couzens pleads guilty

Met Police chief Cressida Dick says "everyone in policing" feels betrayed by Sarah Everard's killer.

www.bbc.co.uk

Using a hired car definitely makes it look premeditated -- will that increase his sentence anyone know?

 

[existentialist]

Using a hired car definitely makes it look premeditated -- will that increase his sentence anyone know?

It'll be one of many, many factors. Given that he was a serving police officer, and if there is any evidence that he used his status to abduct her, I suspect such factors will be the tweeting of small birds in comparison.

 

[Sue]

It'll be one of many, many factors. Given that he was a serving police officer, and if there is any evidence that he used his status to abduct her, I suspect such factors will be the tweeting of small birds in comparison.

Yeah, just looked it up. Looks like there are quite a few aggravating factors (When I said sentence, know it's mandatory for murder. Not sure of the terminology but guess I mean the recommendation of how long that actually means.)

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[planetgeli]

Yeah, just looked it up. Looks like there are quite a few aggravating factors (When I said sentence, know it's mandatory for murder. Not sure of the terminology but guess I mean the recommendation of how long that actually means.)

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Tariff is the word you mean I think.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Minimum tariff will be high ~30. rape+ murder with detailed pre-planning in hiring a car and buying a roll of adhesive tape.

Discount given for guilty plea, will still be ~30.

As an aside, his pleading guilty means that the full details of what happened may never be known or even eeked out, in situations such as this where they are bang to rights they often plead guilty as keeping that knowledge to themselves is a power they can hold on to. Cunts make yer blood run cold.

 

[Edie]

I see that he’d previously been accused of at least two episodes of indecent exposure which were clearly not investigated properly. It’s so utterly disrespectful to women that a man who is a suspected sex offender is placed in a position of power by the state. So dismissive. We all know- it’s common fucking sense- that a man who gets off on the power of indecent exposure is only one step away from rape. Why give him a fucking badge and license?

 

[existentialist]

I see that he’d previously been accused of at least two episodes of indecent exposure which were clearly not investigated properly. It’s so utterly disrespectful to women that a man who is a suspected sex offender is placed in a position of power by the state. So dismissive. We all know- it’s common fucking sense- that a man who gets off on the power of indecent exposure is only one step away from rape. Why give him a fucking badge and license?

I'm assuming that's a rhetorical question? Because the answer is obvious - sexual offences against women, even "mild" ones, count for a lot less than blokish copper solidarity.

 

[Edie]

Yes it was rhetorical

 

[Leighsw2]

Another reminder that indecent exposure is all too often a gateway crime to much more serious sexual offending and deserves to be treated as such by police and CPS.

 

[baldrick]

I think there's more to come about his offending. We know about the indecent exposure a few days before he killed Sarah Everard and I read about a link to a case from 2015. It seems unlikely to me for someone to go straight from flashing to abduction and murder. In his original police statement he made some bizarre claims about being blackmailed by a gang for using sex workers - seems like a strange lie so maybe there's a grain of truth about his use of sex workers. Might be a story there about his treatment of those women and if there is I wonder if any of them went to the police.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think there's more to come about his offending. We know about the indecent exposure a few days before he killed Sarah Everard and I read about a link to a case from 2015. It seems unlikely to me for someone to go straight from flashing to abduction and murder. In his original police statement he made some bizarre claims about being blackmailed by a gang for using sex workers - seems like a strange lie so maybe there's a grain of truth about his use of sex workers. Might be a story there about his treatment of those women and if there is I wonder if any of them went to the police.

Yeh there's bound to be more and I bet some of his colleagues knew about some of it or had their suspicions

 

[Sue]

Yeh there's bound to be more and I bet some of his colleagues knew about some of it or had their suspicions

Yes and there being no trial means we may never hear the full story. Which I'm sure suits the Met fine.