RIP Sarah Everard, who went missing from Brixton in March 2021

[ricbake]

At least six years. I'd be very surprised if he was reported the first time he did this tbh.

It seems there is some record of his being out of order that long ago.
And his employer should have been making very rigorous risk assessment of someone they were sending out to "protect the public" armed.

 

[Argonia]

When I lived in The Basque Country I was teaching a very senior politician who over various classes concluded with me that 'You have a young person who is attracted by some military discipline but not too much, a clear-cut political stance, a sense of belonging to an organisation with its uniform and its customs and secrets, the chance for physical violence, a clear-cut enemy, the workmates are the social life, being able to walk down the street out of their role and people not know their secret life and so on and on'.

He was making the point that in the Basque Country young people, often very similar people from similar backgrounds, ended up on one side or the other of photos like this one

View attachment 277833

It's not exactly like that in the UK but there is the at-present insurmountable problem that a great many of the attractions of policing the country appeal to too many wrong'uns from the off or to people who end up corrupted.

As Plato didn't say 'The last people you want in the police are people who want to be there'. I see no easy solution.

I'm with Karl Popper on Plato but am open to alternative views. I went on a date with a woman from the Basque country who works as a professor in Limerick in Ireland. We met in Paris and drank Guinness but go nowhere.

 

[Orang Utan]

not on this thread please

 

[Argonia]

not on this thread please

Fair enough mate, I'll hold my tongue. Poor Sarah - I want to cry for her.

 

[Cat Fan]

From the IOPC:

Following today’s (Friday 9 July) guilty plea at the Old Bailey by Metropolitan Police Service Police Constable Wayne Couzens, who admitted murdering Sarah Everard, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) has issued an update on its linked conduct investigations.

We have served a total of 12 gross misconduct or misconduct notices on police officers from several forces as we continue to investigate matters linked to the conduct of PC Couzens.

One of our investigations has examined the circumstances surrounding how PC Couzens sustained head injuries in custody on 10 and 12 March after he had been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Sarah Everard. This investigation is nearing its conclusion and all officers involved have been treated as witnesses.

Other ongoing investigations are:

• An investigation into alleged MPS failures to investigate two allegations of indecent exposure linked to PC Couzens in London in February 2021. Two officers* are being investigated for possible breaches of professional standards at misconduct level.
• An investigation into alleged Kent Police failures to investigate an indecent exposure incident linked to PC Couzens in Kent in 2015. No notices have been served.
• An investigation into allegations that a probationary MPS police constable shared an inappropriate graphic with colleagues via social media. The officer subsequently manned a cordon at the scene of the search for Ms Everard. Three officers have been served with gross misconduct notices.
• An investigation into allegations that officers from a number of forces breached standards of professional behaviour while sharing information linked to the prosecution of PC Couzens via a messaging app. One officer has been served with a gross misconduct notice and another six have received misconduct notices.

The serving of misconduct notices does not necessarily mean that disciplinary proceedings will follow.

*My bold

The first and second bullets should be expanded into 'The whole shoddy organisation is being investigated from top to bottom' but it looks as if the idea of 'just a few people not doing their job in a largely decent well-run organisation' is going to be the angle.

Sounds like the problem runs a lot deeper than just one officer. Other officers were enabling his sexual harrassment by (at least) not taking it seriously if not actively encouraging it.

 

[Loose meat]

Having read the Guardian article today - and the obv. stuff not included in that - I can't recall a murder where the murderer left a more clear and obvious trail of clues.

Given his job, and the access he had to guns, he really could have ended himself rather than kill. I'm surprised he didn't.

Police could have identified Sarah Everard killer as sex offender in 2015

Serving officer Wayne Couzens is suspected of committing indecent exposure three times before murder

www.theguardian.com

 

[Espresso]

Having read the Guardian article today - and the obv. stuff not included in that - I can't recall a murder where the murderer left a more clear and obvious trail of clues.

Given his job, and the access he had to guns, he really could have ended himself rather than kill. I'm surprised he didn't.

Police could have identified Sarah Everard killer as sex offender in 2015

Serving officer Wayne Couzens is suspected of committing indecent exposure three times before murder

www.theguardian.com

Must have been pretty sure he'd never get caught. Or if he did get caught, his buddies would cover for him.

 

[Pickman's model]

Having read the Guardian article today - and the obv. stuff not included in that - I can't recall a murder where the murderer left a more clear and obvious trail of clues.

Given his job, and the access he had to guns, he really could have ended himself rather than kill. I'm surprised he didn't.

Police could have identified Sarah Everard killer as sex offender in 2015

Serving officer Wayne Couzens is suspected of committing indecent exposure three times before murder

www.theguardian.com

You should consult a doctor if your memory is really so poor. See for example the appalling killing of those two sisters in fryent country park. Most of the time murderers leave such a clear series of clues that even the British police can follow them to the perpetrator

 

[Loose meat]

Must have been pretty sure he'd never get caught. Or if he did get caught, his buddies would cover for him.

The thing is he didn't need to do all that. I have to read it as someone who wanted to be caught.

I mean .. pulling up, literally on the South Circ itself, in a rented car that has associated your credit card, driving license, on half a dozen cctv bus routes ... and then buying shit off Amazon. And that's just for starters.

 

[Pickman's model]

The thing is he didn't need to do all that. I have to read it as someone who wanted to be caught.

I mean .. pulling up, literally on the South Circ itself, in a rented car that has associated your credit card, driving license, on half a dozen cctv bus routes ... and then buying shit off Amazon. And that's just for starters.

No one ever said cops were smart

 

[Nanker Phelge]

Interesting form of rehabilitation for a flasher. Give them a gun to wave about in public.

 

[tim]

Must have been pretty sure he'd never get caught. Or if he did get caught, his buddies would cover for him.

If so, it's a reflection of how stupid he is because he left a trail of clues behind him. As to Met Omerta, no cop, however, corrupt would risk their own career and freedom trying to cover up a crime as high profile as this

 

[Pickman's model]

If so, it's a reflection of how stupid he is because he left a trail of clues behind him. As to Met Omerta, no cop, however, corrupt would risk their own career and freedom trying to cover up a crime as high profile as this

Who needs a cover up when you can evade responsibility for something eg cressida dick? barring some great surprise Teflon Cressida will just wipe the shit away again and altho there may be some local difficulty I expect things will continue just as they were

 

[Dystopiary]

If he'd done it on a whim he'd not qualify as a 'psychopath' ? Cos he planned it he is mad? Too easy.

It was a visceral reaction really. "Psychopath" does not mean "mad". Just the thought that he'd planned it made it seem even worse (if that's possible) in my mind when I read that he (allegedly) had.

That's the trouble with flinging around terms of art - what people think of as a "psychopath" may not be the same as a clinical definition of the term.

I doubt that this shithead has much if any capacity for empathy or remorse to do what he's done, and I'm not going to care about offending actual psychopaths, or him, if it turns out he isn't.

 

[ruffneck23]

If so, it's a reflection of how stupid he is because he left a trail of clues behind him. As to Met Omerta, no cop, however, corrupt would risk their own career and freedom trying to cover up a crime as high profile as this

but you are forgetting , most clever people don't join up , cos they aren't stupid , I have 2 close friends of the family who work in the Met (I know... interesting conversations at xmas )and im not at all surprised this wanker wasnt flagged up because they aren't the cleverest of people .

 

[Pickman's model]

but you are forgetting , most clever people don't join up , cos they aren't stupid , I have 2 close friends of the family who work in the Met (I know... interesting conversations at xmas ) but im not at all surprised this wanker wasnt flagged up.

Yeh he'll have been the life and soul of the party.

 

[ruffneck23]

Yeh he'll have been the life and soul of the party.

We talked about raving a couple of years ago at xmas , when we were allowed to do xmas , at the xmas table ,he said (no word of a lie) ' I was at the same parties as you, but I was on the other side of the door', that kinda killed the moment. Cunt but families eh ?

 

[John Schofield]

From the IOPC:

Following today’s (Friday 9 July) guilty plea at the Old Bailey by Metropolitan Police Service Police Constable Wayne Couzens, who admitted murdering Sarah Everard, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) has issued an update on its linked conduct investigations.

We have served a total of 12 gross misconduct or misconduct notices on police officers from several forces as we continue to investigate matters linked to the conduct of PC Couzens.

One of our investigations has examined the circumstances surrounding how PC Couzens sustained head injuries in custody on 10 and 12 March after he had been arrested on suspicion of the murder of Sarah Everard. This investigation is nearing its conclusion and all officers involved have been treated as witnesses.

Other ongoing investigations are:

• An investigation into alleged MPS failures to investigate two allegations of indecent exposure linked to PC Couzens in London in February 2021. Two officers* are being investigated for possible breaches of professional standards at misconduct level.
• An investigation into alleged Kent Police failures to investigate an indecent exposure incident linked to PC Couzens in Kent in 2015. No notices have been served.
• An investigation into allegations that a probationary MPS police constable shared an inappropriate graphic with colleagues via social media. The officer subsequently manned a cordon at the scene of the search for Ms Everard. Three officers have been served with gross misconduct notices.
• An investigation into allegations that officers from a number of forces breached standards of professional behaviour while sharing information linked to the prosecution of PC Couzens via a messaging app. One officer has been served with a gross misconduct notice and another six have received misconduct notices.

The serving of misconduct notices does not necessarily mean that disciplinary proceedings will follow.

*My bold

The first and second bullets should be expanded into 'The whole shoddy organisation is being investigated from top to bottom' but it looks as if the idea of 'just a few people not doing their job in a largely decent well-run organisation' is going to be the angle.

Can anyone explain why sharing an inappropriate graphic is (obviously quite rightly) treated as gross midconduct but those officers allegedly involved in failing to deal with Couzens sexual offences are only investigated at 'misconduct' level of without any misconduct notice issued at all? Am I missing something? Could it mean they are likley to face serious sanction outside the misconduct procedure?

 

[platinumsage]

So it turns out his colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary had a nickname for him: The Rapist

This was due to concerns over how he behaved towards women.

You couldn’t make it up could you?

 

[Argonia]

So it turns out his colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary had a nickname for him: The Rapist

This was due to concerns over how he behaved towards women.

You couldn’t make it up could you?

Oh heavens above

 

[Raheem]

"We were so concerned we gave him a nickname."

 

[existentialist]

It was a visceral reaction really. "Psychopath" does not mean "mad". Just the thought that he'd planned it made it seem even worse (if that's possible) in my mind when I read that he (allegedly) had.



I doubt that this shithead has much if any capacity for empathy or remorse to do what he's done, and I'm not going to care about offending actual psychopaths, or him, if it turns out he isn't.

That's all very well, and of course language is not immutable. But the danger is that we dilute these terms by doing this, and in blurring the distinction between ACTUAL psychopaths, and people we just think are, we make it easier for them to hide in plain sight.

 

[Dystopiary]

That's all very well, and of course language is not immutable. But the danger is that we dilute these terms by doing this, and in blurring the distinction between ACTUAL psychopaths, and people we just think are, we make it easier for them to hide in plain sight.

Well it's not a term I'd ever use lightly. I don't think me typing that in anger is responsible for facilitating their evasion, rather, people who turn a blind eye to their disturbing behaviour (which yes of course they try to hide etc but... ) I do get what you're saying. Not going further with this cos I don't fancy a pile-on, nor do I want to detract from a really important thread.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

That's all very well, and of course language is not immutable. But the danger is that we dilute these terms by doing this, and in blurring the distinction between ACTUAL psychopaths, and people we just think are, we make it easier for them to hide in plain sight.

Surely actual psychopaths have been hiding in plain sight throughout human history. Our rulers. Some worse than others, some with a charade of holiness, some seemingly popular. All, the successful ones, capable of breaking all moral rules when push comes to shove, of justifying the deaths of hundreds, thousands or millions of fellow humans and perpetrating all manner of crimes in the supposed interest of the state, or religion or an ideology. Even when we disapprove we treat it as normal.

 

[baldrick]

So it turns out his colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary had a nickname for him: The Rapist

This was due to concerns over how he behaved towards women.

You couldn’t make it up could you?

Where did you find that out?

 

[not-bono-ever]

I heard stuff at the time of the arrest and naming about his activities. He may well have been involved with street workers on a regular basis . He wasn’t unknown for this iykwim. The fuckibg bastard

 

[Elpenor]

Hard to imagine a work environment where a nickname like that could be considered banter.

 

[two sheds]

Or easy

 

[DaveCinzano]

Where did you find that out?

It was reported in the Sun yesterday, and picked up by the Mirror Mail, Metro, Standard etc today.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hard to imagine a work environment where a nickname like that could be considered banter.

Makes it easier to understand why he wasn't removed from his job though. Seems like his behaviour simply wasn't considered a problem.