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Rape, sexual assault and harassment in the entertainment industry

I believe the Weinstein scandal, and now with several side scandals, such as Kevin Spacey, went down the way it did - so fast and furiously - because of the election campaign and the enormous furor the liberals kicked up over Trumps sexism. They were all scandalized to to such a degree you could actually mistake them for real, live feminists, which most of them are not. It was a level of fury that was at odds with the way they normally treat this kind of behaviour - the rape allegations against Bill Clinton for one, and a myriad of similar abuses from their fellow white, entitled upper class men. I believe they were somewhat entangled by their own strategy, in the same way the american establishment entangled themselves a long time ago with their declaration of independence. “All men are created equal” declared the white, upper-class, slave owning men. That declaration came back to bite them in the arse. When the liberal elite mobilized such a fury against the sexism and entitlement of white, powerful upper class men, in the figure of Donald Trump, I gather they opened up a possibility for the reality of this fury. And that is at least one good thing to come out of this shit show.
 
The Octagon said:
Kevin Spacey now accused by a Star Trek Discovery actor, claims Spacey made a sexual advance to him when he was 14.

Spacey's response is to come out officially as gay and claim he can't recall the incident, shitty deflection.
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I misheard this first thing in a half-awake state as Kevin Bacon. :oops:
 
Odrade said:
When the liberal elite mobilized such a fury against the sexism and entitlement of white, powerful upper class men, in the figure of Donald Trump, I gather they opened up a possibility for the reality of this fury. And that is at least one good thing to come out of this shit show.
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I don't think the liberal elite were the only factor here. Take for example the Fox News stuff which saw the end of Roger Ailes and others, which really got going when Gretchen Carlson refused to be silent after being fired.
 
According to Aisling Bea, Spacey was a well known pervert in the young actors circuit, with many having a story to tell
 
Spacey used to own the penthouse in a block at the other end of the road from my old work HQ, we used to smoke on a balcony on the roof. I didn't realise until today that he wasn't 'officially' gay.
 
elbows said:
I don't think the liberal elite were the only factor here. Take for example the Fox News stuff which saw the end of Roger Ailes and others, which really got going when Gretchen Carlson refused to be silent after being fired.
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Sure, they all got swept up in this new framing of the debate, and with the new framing a stronger legitimation of the voices of victims of abuse. Trump did strike back against the hypocrisy of the democrat outrage with inviting a bunch of the women accusing Bill Clinton of rape and harassment, so they were all entangling themselves. My point is, I think, that when the democrats zoned in on the sexism and entitlement of powerful men, and in that instant made this framing a legitimate political concern, it opened up these floodgates, for Republicans and Democrats alike, it would seem. The american declaration of all men being created equal, which they did not intend to have the consequences it is still having, did not only pertain to the declaring side of the argument. It turned out to entangle all of us, in some way,
 
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I just don't buy the idea that the democrats were required to make that stuff a legitimate political concern. The concern had been mounting for years, people on the right who could never be described as democrats, including some Fox News victims, had already taken a stand publicly that got traction, and a lot of the attacks on trump for his disgraceful words and acts towards women came from non-democratic quarters too. The democratic campaign added to this, but I'm not going to give them as much credit as you do and looking at the timeline I really don't think they got this ball rolling.
 
They've cancelled House Of Cards because of what Kevin Spacey did 30 years ago?
Should Oscar Wilde be banned ? I don't know.
 
Im pretty sure that years ago someone on here (dubversion?) mentioned being at an event or workshop with Kevin Spacey and he made a lot of very dodgey remarks about perving up boys under the guise of "humour".
 
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you got me bang to rights, i secretly think all gay people are abusers damn you pesky kids the mask has slipped.
:rolleyes:
 
krtek a houby said:
Was Wilde an abuser?
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AFAIK, no. Or, at least, there's no clear evidence of that. In his 30s, he regularly used prostitutes, but all the ones we know about were in their late teens or early 20s.

Of course, there's the issue of whether using prostitutes is OK or not, but he wasn't a Gary Glitter.
 
elbows said:
What you really think is not much defence against the impression you give with the words you use...
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i don't see much wrong with bimble's phrasing - she's asking whether a whole machine should be scrapped because of the errors/failures/crimes of a componant part of that machine that took place before the componant part became of that wider machine.

none of that conflates, or suggested a cause-effect relationship between any particular sexuality and a penchant for the vunerable.

Spacey's desperate, ill-judged statement may not have been so ill-judged, for self-preservation purposes if nothing else, however - while listening the BBC R5 yesterday afternoon (and while pretending to work, so my recollection is not perfect or complete), they interviewed a chap from an LGBT news website about the effect of Spaceys statement/admission/act/idiocy. he was entirely condenming of Spacey's bahaviour, both then and now, but then he said something very interesting: when asked, at the end of the interview, how they normally covered this type of thing, he said that they don't. they don't cover abuse committed by members of the LGBT community upon others because (and i paraphrase, because i can't recall the form of words used, only the sentiment..) its bad news.

so perhaps Spacey thinks (perhaps with some justification, given the above) that if he intertwines his admission (well, it wasn't an admission, he claims he doesn't remember it) of his behaviour towards a 14yo child with his coming out statement, that some elements within the media will give him an easier ride than they would do otherwise?

(for the record, i have a 14yo daughter - if you think i'm being a bit wishy-washy, you should imagine my view of men in their late 20's who jump into bed with 14yo's at parties....)
 
The question all this with Weinstein, Spacey, MPs etc is what do we want to happen and how can we express it?

Hand wringers on the right are going 'OMG, feminists want every guy who ever smiled at a woman locked up and now men won't want to have anything to do with women in case they are called abusive!!!' , which is obviously not the case.

I think what we *do* want is an end to a society where women are objectified, where men feel women owe them smiles, or niceness or sex or anything for that matter and indeed where women are conditioned to believe they owe men things.
 
Orang Utan said:
And now Dustin Hoffman:
Dustin Hoffman accused of sexual harassment against 17-year-old
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Shit.

I don't know what it's like for the men reading, but all of these accounts have the absolute ring of truth in the phrases they report the men saying. Even though the things they are saying are in many cases pretty odd. (Soft boiled clitoris).


And I can totally understand why people might be a bit suspicious as to why all of this is being reported now.

The Hoffman case is a perfect example. That kind of stuff - what are you going to do? It's not illegal - or only very slightly. You learn pretty young that this is what being a woman involves. And then suddenly people are listening because your one story on its own is like "so what?" But if one of the people who harassed you was famous, then just for a while, and only for that story, that man - people want to know.
 
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