Putins satan 2 dooms day
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Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
The Kiss Your Arse Goodbye Thread
So Ukraine gets its way with the No Fly Zone. Russian and NATO forces clash. We're all shitting ourselves as to what will happen next... What would you do in the shadow of the nuclear holocaust other than think about how unlikely this was (1962 excepted) in the good old days of Cold War stability?
www.urban75.net
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
From your first post I assume you're talking about Ukraine?
I don't think any western anti-war movement could do anything to convince Putin and his circle of nationalist hard men and gangsters to stop the war.
The current Labour Party is not by any sensible definition of the term 'left'. But you're right that lots of people on the left seem to lap up pro-Kremlin talking points, focusing on the (real) shortcomings of the Ukrainian state while ignoring the direct cause of the war, the Russian state's invasion and brutal occupation.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They were only ever intended to last several hours
Even thoe I doubt they had much impact except brought more awareness.
You could support the anti-war stuff in Russia as much as you can if you as concerned. Not much point having anti-war demos here, who and what would you be addressing/asking for? No arms to Ukraine? Negotiate a peace now? Stop the War are doing that kind of thing. You might want to have a think about why their activities now on Ukraine have much less support than other wars you might be thinking about.
Think we need to look at the bigger picture the war isn't Russia v Ukraine
It's NATO v Russia as many in the left realise.
Noam Chomsky
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Bollocks. I was just about to say NATO.
spitfire
Minister for Balloons (retd.)
If the chance to blame NATO is missed you can always fall back on brexit.
So you think it's nothing to do with NATO expansion?
spitfire
Minister for Balloons (retd.)
No I think it was brexit wot dunnit.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Hot new take here then.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
I think everyone's going about this Ukraine thing the wrong way. Why doesn't someone just take Putin aside and try to reach out to him as a human being, and ask him why he seems to be so angry? I'm sure he's a deeply unhappy man, and if approached the right way, he might just call off his forces and talk about it.
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
Saying it's nothing to do with NATO expansion would be overstating it. That's one ingredient amongst many. But it pails against nationalist Russian mythmaking about the rightful extent of Russia and about internal Russian political, social and economic forces. Saying NATO expansion is the main cause of the war is just parroting one of the Kremlin's lines to take.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
A great many people (including me) view this as very much a righteous war with a good side and a bad side and with the West for once supporting the good side without the moral ambiguity of some of the more recent conflicts its dabbled in. It started when one country invaded its neighbour in a good old fashioned war of conquest.
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
But what about Hunter Biden's laptop?
Don't mention that just repeat "it's a conspiracy "
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Soon you'll be catching up with talking points from March and then come December you'll be discussing things from may
Explains why the anti war movement is shrinking.
existentialist
Things Done
So, if I spill your pint, and then you come round to my house and set fire to it, of course it's "something to do" with pint spillage, but it doesn't justify your actions.
The good side you mean NATO USA imperialism er.
Yossarian
⏭️
I remember the antiwar protests in 2003 when we all marched around with placards saying "Stop provoking the West, Saddam," "Don't make Bush do this," and "This is all your own fault"
Well yes I am behind abit but catching up
The anti war movement back then was more left wing .
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Never have I seen a more feeble attempt at straw clutching in my entire life it doesn't even deserve 0/10
Ukraine is definitely in the right here, no-one has claimed that pre-war Ukraine was a paradise but it is totally innocent in all this. When people protest against foreign wars, they're not protesting against the actual war, they are protesting against their own Govt's policy towards it. There are no protests against this war because despite the complete dogs dinner Rishi Rich and his buddies are making of everything else it seems to me that the vast majority of the public are behind them on this. Here in Sleepyville UK there are at least a dozen Ukrainian flags flying from houses in support. I have met actual Ukrainian refugees (all women and children by the way, their men have stayed to fight).
If it was up to me I would let them have F-22's never mind F-16's, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of letting them have battlefield nukes. For the first time since the Falkands War we are involved in a war where there is no question we are on the right side and it feels good.
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