Possible vaccines/treatment(s) for Coronavirus

[elbows]

Could the good old BCG jab help
Can a century-old TB vaccine steel the immune system against the new coronavirus?

Back in the news:

BCG: Can a vaccine from 1921 save lives from Covid-19?

Vaccines may cause wide-scale changes in the immune system which can boost the body's protection.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[elbows]

From the above:

Around 1,000 people will take part in the trial at the University of Exeter.
But while millions of people in the UK will have had the BCG jab as a child, it is thought they would need to be vaccinated again to benefit.

The UK trial is part of the international Brace-study, which is also taking place in Australia, the Netherlands, Spain and Brazil, recruiting 10,000 people in total.
It will focus on health and care workers, as they are more likely to be exposed to coronavirus, so researchers will know more quickly if the vaccine is effective.

 

[William of Walworth]

From elbows ' post above :

But while millions of people in the UK will have had the BCG jab as a child, it is thought they would need to be vaccinated again to benefit.

And IF it works, the problem with that would be precisely zero surely?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

From elbows ' post above :



And IF it works, the problem with that would be precisely zero surely?

Well it would mean you'd need a massive roll out programme and you'd need to assess if the degree of benefit was worth it, rather than people already having that protection.

It's not an anti-vax point.

 

[William of Walworth]

Very fair point, and it's good that you prompt me to think about that cheers

I do still struggle though, with assessing whether the degree of benefit would be "worth it" -- surely, if people might? already be protected/immune, then even so, a new 'vaccine-guarentee' (?) would scarcely do any harm, surely?

Less risky than doing without I'd have thought ...

<needing properly science-minded people to comment on this to clarify ... cheers anyone! >

 

[xenon]

Very fair point, and it's good that you prompt me to think about that cheers

I do still struggle though, with assessing whether the degree of benefit would be "worth it" -- surely, if people might? already be protected/immune, then even so, a new 'vaccine-guarentee' (?) would scarcely do any harm, surely?

Less risky than doing without I'd have thought ...

<needing properly science-minded people to comment on this to clarify ... cheers anyone! >

Well not that I'm a proper science bod but a few thoughts.

If the study confirms there is some protective benefit from the BBCG jab providing an overall boost to the immune system, you have to then look at how much of a boost. Would rolling out a mass re-immunisation program be worthwhile if say the bennfit is only marginal. Not because you or I as individuals may think it's worth it and be up for it but a mass program could divert resources from other efforts. Financial, time, manpower and material resources that might be best deployed in other measures or at least kept in reserve should an actual vaccine become viable in the next year or 2.

 

[William of Walworth]

xenon : Will need to think about that a bit more, and without the 'aid' of beer

For now, here's something else from today -- that pissed me off a bit.

The Daily Mail (Weds 14th October) splashed with (to no-one's surprise obvs) a sensational headline that said

No hope of normality until JULY : Head of Oxford vaccine team warns facemasks and social distancing will be needed until next summer

• Andrew Pollard warned measures would continue even if his trial is successful
• First jabs could not be available until next year and then only for key groups
• Professor Pollard said: 'Life won't be back to normal until summer at the earliest'

I'm not linking to those Mail cunts , but I did skim the story in Sainsbury's this afternoon, and needless to say the headline is far more worst-case-scenario than most of the content .....

Spot the actual connection between facemasks/distancing and actual prospects and timing of a vaccine? ...
Not suggesting that we won't be facemasking and distancing for a good long time (and no problem there for me) but azwe-all-gnome, there's a difference between correlation and causation

ETA : 'Next year' isn't synonymous with JULY!!!1!!1!! either ......

 

[xenon]

Well it sounds reasonable TBH, that measures such as social distancing and facemasks may need to be in place until next summer. In fact, I'm just trying to accept that will be the case.

A bonus would be if some music / theatre venues can open in some capacity.

 

[Supine]

I hear the person who died in the astrazenica vaccine trial had been in the placebo arm of the experiment. Good news (not for them obviously). Not seen it in the press yet.

 

[LDC]

I hear the person who died in the astrazenica vaccine trial had been in the placebo arm of the experiment. Good news (not for them obviously). Not seen it in the press yet.

I'm having the Novavax vaccine/placebo jab this week, so I'm pleased to hear that!

 

[teuchter]

Interesting that they had to pause the trial even though the patient concerned hadn't been given the vaccine.

 

[xenon]

Interesting that they had to pause the trial even though the patient concerned hadn't been given the vaccine.

Maybe it's a double blind trial, so may have taken some time to work out who had what whilst the people on the ground paused things.

Never mind of course it would look a bit crass to just keep going, telling the relatives, Sorry about that but they were only on the placebo anyway.

 

[Supine]

Interesting that they had to pause the trial even though the patient concerned hadn't been given the vaccine.

They wouldn't know until the investigation was completed.

 

[teuchter]

They wouldn't know until the investigation was completed.

Is it something that's very complicated to check?

 

[two sheds]

Are we sure it was one of the people having the placebo?

placebos can be powerful though

 

[Supine]

Is it something that's very complicated to check?

It's made very difficult. It wouldn't be blind otherwise.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I hear the person who died in the astrazenica vaccine trial had been in the placebo arm of the experiment. Good news (not for them obviously). Not seen it in the press yet.

Trials of a Covid-19 vaccine being developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University will continue, following a review into the death of a volunteer in Brazil.
Brazil's health authority has given no details about the death, citing confidentiality protocols.
Oxford University said a "careful assessment" had revealed no safety concerns.
The BBC understands that the volunteer did not receive the vaccine.

Covid: No safety concerns found with Oxford vaccine trial after Brazil death

The Brazilian volunteer did not receive the vaccine being tested by AstraZeneca and Oxford University.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Supine]

You heard it here first!

 

[teuchter]

It's made very difficult. It wouldn't be blind otherwise.

Sure... I'm just interested in what it actually involves. I can see that there'd probably be some system that would rely on multiple people giving consent to the access of information but I'm wondering why it would take a long time once it's agreed that it needs to be checked.

 

[Cloo]

I do think we should expect social distancing, as they said earlier this year, to last into late next year sad to say William of Walworth - OTOH I guess people will now be busy organising more outdoor safely distanced stuff for next summer, though I think we'd be bloody lucky to get two such dry spring/summers in a row

I see promising progress from Oxford: Oxford coronavirus vaccine ‘works as expected' and triggers 'strong immunity’ - but all the same, even if we get a functional vaccine, I wonder what the minimum is that would be needed to move towards normality? As in, would over 70s, NHS and care staff as a bare minimum be enough to ease off some things? Given deaths and hospitalisation pretty rare under that age group, but that still could mean high levels of absence from jobs/secondary schools/college/uni of the unvaccinated.

 

[nogojones]

I'm having the Novavax vaccine/placebo jab this week, so I'm pleased to hear that!

I hope they don't give you the placebo. It sounds dangerous.

 

[LDC]

I hope they don't give you the placebo. It sounds dangerous.

Placebo is saline.

 

[nogojones]

Placebo is saline.

These so called scientists with their funny chemicals

 

[prunus]

Placebo is saline.

You do realise that ‘saline’ is an anagram of ‘aliens’...

 

[Wilf]

The mighty hancock has been talking about there being an outside chance of the Oxford/Zeneca vaccine starting to be deployed by the end of the year, reporting that he's 'in contact with them' (sorry lost the link, it was some newsfeed or other). Regardless that it's the halfwit hancock coming out with this, is that code for Oxford now having some sense that the differences between control and vaccine groups are significant enough to be putting in for regulatory approval within the month?

By the way, I do know how double blind tests work, I've just assumed with something so big/important/expensive that they will already have some interim data on effectiveness.

 

[LDC]

We submit data as we go along starting day after the trial vaccination and that's collected instantly by Novavax (done on a smartphone app) so I think a picture of its effectiveness might start to emerge before the official end of the trial.

 

[Supine]

I think the trial opens when X participants catch covid. The quicker that number is reached the quicker we know if it works.

When x patients are sick they look to see how many are from the placebo arm of the trial. Hopefully most of them will be.

The one advantage of increasing rates is quicker results.

 

[teuchter]

The mighty hancock has been talking about there being an outside chance of the Oxford/Zeneca vaccine starting to be deployed by the end of the year, reporting that he's 'in contact with them' (sorry lost the link, it was some newsfeed or other). Regardless that it's the halfwit hancock coming out with this, is that code for Oxford now having some sense that the differences between control and vaccine groups are significant enough to be putting in for regulatory approval within the month?

By the way, I do know how double blind tests work, I've just assumed with something so big/important/expensive that they will already have some interim data on effectiveness.

See post no. 200 above.

 

[Wilf]

We submit data as we go along starting day after the trial vaccination and that's collected instantly by Novavax (done on a smartphone app) so I think a picture of its effectiveness might start to emerge before the official end of the trial.

Cheers.

 

[Wilf]

I think the trial opens when X participants catch covid. The quicker that number is reached the quicker we know if it works.

When x patients are sick they look to see how many are from the placebo arm of the trial. Hopefully most of them will be.

The one advantage of increasing rates is quicker results.

Yeah, I get that, but given the stakes on this I doubt that it's going to be entirely a case of waiting till that threshold is met and then a thumbs up or down. For one thing there will be regular chatter between the team and Hancock's civil servants.