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Pop Brixton (formerly Grow Brixton) Pope's Road development

Gramsci said:
I read that section again.

They did refuse to resign. The paragraphs after the one where Turner tells them to resign or else he will discuss meetings between EBS and officers. Then mediation set up by Council. This all means that EBS called his bluff. If u follow the time line of what happened.

I know it's complicated but I think ur reading it wrong on that point.
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I don't think I have misread. They article says they did resign. The story seems to imply they were forced to resign but it is not obvious how. I'd be interested to know more from the Bust Stop people themselves why they had no option.

The story also says the Bus Stop said they had raised there half of the money 136,000 pounds for the project. That does not sound to me like half the money needed. I don't know really but could anyone build Pop for 272,000? Sounds unrealistic. I have read on here that it cost a million. Makes me think money was the issue.
 
Gramsci said:
What Jason says is this:



Even handed enough for me. And accurate to say many local people feel it has little connection to them. Its what I hear.

The title of piece is quoting from the "PR" blurb and Cllr Hopkins. So not an invention of Jasons.

EBS have finally come out and said after giving it a year they are disappointed with the end result and the reasons why. Whether one agrees with what they say is up to the reader of the article.

Pop is going to divide people. Jason has his opinions but puts enough in the article for people to make up there own minds.
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You're talking about apparent even handedness in assessing the pros and cons of the project in general. I was talking about the question of whether the reality matches what was originally promised which I don't think the article addresses.

To answer that question it would have to look at the specific details set out in the original proposal (not just a PR image and a four word quote from some PR blurb that doesn't even seem to have been written at the outset) and compare these with what has come to pass in reality.

I reckon that this would reveal various things have indeed changed but I suspect not to the extent that the title of the article tries to suggest.
 
T & P said:
I can't see how you can read anything into those photographs, least of all how they might possibly show whether the site represents the local community. Those pictures are quite meaningless, really...
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For a project claimed to be for "all of the community," the blatant lack of diversity and the domination of a wafer thin, well heeled demographic troubles me deeply. Clearly you think it's all OK, so we'll leave it at that.
 
Tonight they're showing a showcase of short films made by local up and coming talent. Which is great. But then they charge £6 for the privilege which seems pretty much against the spirit of the venture and will clearly exclude some. Still, as their press release points out, "There is also a bar on site for all your beverage needs." As long as you can get a pint for a £5 in a plastic glass while you sit on your metal fold-up seat in a wooden barn, that's OK.
 
Pop Tart said:
I don't think I have misread. They article says they did resign. The story seems to imply they were forced to resign but it is not obvious how. I'd be interested to know more from the Bust Stop people themselves why they had no option.

The story also says the Bus Stop said they had raised there half of the money 136,000 pounds for the project. That does not sound to me like half the money needed. I don't know really but could anyone build Pop for 272,000? Sounds unrealistic. I have read on here that it cost a million. Makes me think money was the issue.
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I was dealing with a specific issue of the time line of events. The specific part of your post where you asked why they did not call Turners bluff.

You got that wrong in your post.
J
 
Mama's Jerk Station at Pop reviewed in today's Time Out:
8df2bfbe91ef21bda02f5b271a25ee3f.jpg
 
Gramsci said:
You don’t have to agree. What I’m saying, from my experience, is that this is a common complaint. So Jason is right to report that.
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The question is whether the complaint that Pop has little connection with Brixton is accurate, especially with regard to who is based there.
 
leanderman said:
The question is whether the complaint that Pop has little connection with Brixton is accurate, especially with regard to who is based there.
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Except many of the 'Lambeth-based' businesses at Pop are very much recent arrivals with little or no previous connection to the area, and Lambeth is a very big place indeed. It's a bit of spin that you seem happy to swallow without question.

Don't you wonder why there aren't any of the businesses in Station Road located there? Or why the 'community' venture Pop didn't invite the soon to be displaced long established businesses from the arches nearby?

Pop is obviously targeting a very narrow, unrepresentative but lucrative demographic. That's all fine except this is supposed be something for "all the community" and not just a boozy playground for well heeled 20/30 somethings and tourists.
 
Group
leanderman said:
The question is whether the complaint that Pop has little connection with Brixton is accurate, especially with regard to who is based there.
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It's what a lot of people feel. The failure of Pop is that instead of bringing people together it's further polarised people. This thread is an example.
Two people I talked to on weekend. One does not like it for the reasons given in Jason article. The other thought all the changes are good. Arches being refurbished etc and Pop. At least he had a clear point of view. Even if I didn't agree.

There is going to be no meeting of minds on this.

If the Council think this Meanwhile use is an experiment in how to manage change. Bring old and new Brixton together it's going to have to think again.

And the Council needs to talk to people about it. Rather than just turning up to meetings and telling people how good it is. As I saw happen recently.
 
Last edited:
This evening, as I have someone staying with me, I thought we could see if we could get dinner at Kricket so we went into Pop Brixton.

It was quite busy and largely populated by what, ten years ago, we might have described as "people from Clapham". They were enjoying drinks and a proportion of those drinks were something that looked like Champagne.

At Kricket, which was full to capacity, someone ahead of us was giving his details to be put on the waiting list. He was dressed in Chinos and shirt and his name was Marcus.

We decided not to wait for an hour plus to get some food so we went elsewhere.

True story.
 
Gramsci said:
I was dealing with a specific issue of the time line of events. The specific part of your post where you asked why they did not call Turners bluff.

You got that wrong in your post.
J
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Oh I see where you are coming from. Maybe we have different ideas about what a bluff is. I think you think there not resigning the moment he told them he’d go if they didn’t as there calling his bluff. I dont consider that a bluff – I imagine even the archictect would have been surprised if they had suddenly resigned on the spot in response to his threat. Their is nothing in the story which makes me think they called his bluff at all. If at any point they had said OK bugger off, we don’t need you and were going to carry on by ourselves I would have considered that calling his bluff. From what I have understood even through meditation the archictect didnt really budge his position throughout, Bus top never suggested they could carry on without him and they eventually did resign – maybe because they felt they could not manage the project without him - or maybe they could not convince the council that they could do it without him.

FWIW impossible to know but I dont think the archictect was bluffing either. The relationship looks like it was too one sided and he did not have to bluff. Apart from money he had much more experience of building. Anyway we are speculating and i doubt the archictect or Bus Stop people will come on here to clear it up for us. Its too scary! :)
 
It looks like EBS did need the money - I found this article about the early days of Grow Brixton which includes the quote:

But, the Grow Brixon team are doing this for love, not money – Mak told me that she went to the bank last week only to find that there was no cash left in her account. Such a big project needs proper financial backing, so please spread the word and if you know anyone who might be able to help, they can contact Mak and Will here.
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Pop Tart said:
The story also says the Bus Stop said they had raised there half of the money 136,000 pounds for the project. That does not sound to me like half the money needed. I don't know really but could anyone build Pop for 272,000? Sounds unrealistic. I have read on here that it cost a million. Makes me think money was the issue.
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Different concepts, with different budgets. A commercial venture with a lot of infrastructure implies a lot more capital than people growing lettuces.
 
Winot said:
It looks like EBS did need the money - I found this article about the early days of Grow Brixton which includes the quote:
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That is quite wonderfully disingenuous. Well done. So, again, remind me why this out of context quote about a supposed lack of money had anything to do with their forced departure from the Pop project, given that neither Carl Turner or Lambeth mentioned it in their statements?
 
editor said:
Here's one for all the local community. A film screening with a bit of dressing up for just £15 each - but then you do get a 'bean bag' seat for extra wackiness.
Fifteen fucking quid.
Block Party Cinema presents Dope Pop Brixton London | DesignMyNight
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Actually there is a choice of Blocks in Brixton.
This lot do free stuff - though I daresay when they do charge for drinks for fundraising purposes at functions it's not above the norm.
Their showing of Firewalk with Me last year was free for the film - charge for the drinks.
 
editor said:
Here's one for all the local community. A film screening with a bit of dressing up for just £15 each - but then you do get a 'bean bag' seat for extra wackiness.
Fifteen fucking quid.

Block Party Cinema presents Dope Pop Brixton London | DesignMyNight
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If I was sat on a beanbag for a couple of hours, I'd need the £15 for cab fare to Kings A & E for valium and morphine cocktail to relieve back spasms.
I can think of more *satisfying* ways of spending £15 in order to end up in pain!
 
teuchter said:
Which is what was outlined in the initial grow:brixton proposal.
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As says the article Winot found about EBS:

the team are proposing a landscaped cultural hub where people can acquire new skills such as horticulture, cooking, building and music, with shipping containers for restaurants and shops.
 
newbie said:
Different concepts, with different budgets. A commercial venture with a lot of infrastructure implies a lot more capital than people growing lettuces.
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I thought that the original grow concept before the split already involved multi story shipping containers and commercial units like shops and restuarants and offices and a big stage area too?

edit - OK someone else has already answered that!
 
My point was a lot more capital, not no capital.

This is the drawing in the Buzz article
13.jpg


There's a lot of open space which has been filled up in what has actually been built, ie Pop has more infrastructure, requiring more capital. Or have I misunderstood?
 
The existing Pop does have more infrastructure than in that illustration, but not loads more.

If I were to guess the extra capital to build what's built compared to that, it might be 10 or 15% extra.
 
newbie said:
As little as that? fair enough, I wouldn't pretend to know.
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Well, a large chunk of the costs is putting in all the supporting infrastucture - drainage, plumbing, foundations, power etc. And all the overheads of operating a building site for X months... machinery, labour, access, site management etc.
Once you've established all that, adding a few extra shipping containers would become a marginal extra cost, to some extent.
 
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