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Pop Brixton (formerly Grow Brixton) Pope's Road development

And here, finally, is the horrible truth behind how Grow Brixton turned into Pop Brixton. It makes for some very depressing reading.

Exclusive: Grow Brixton to Pop Brixton – how a green oasis for the community turned into a 21st Century business park
Excellent article, and if al the pro POP we like our fancy burgers and rip off price beers can't see what is at the heart of this development and why it wrankles so much, then i guess that is both theirs and our loss. Its a fucking disgrace and it is Lambeth BC that should hang its head in shame.
 
Excellent article, and if al the pro POP we like our fancy burgers and rip off price beers can't see what is at the heart of this development and why it wrankles so much, then i guess that is both theirs and our loss. Its a fucking disgrace and it is Lambeth BC that should hang its head in shame.
"For the community". Yeah, right.

 
And here, finally, is the horrible truth behind how Grow Brixton turned into Pop Brixton. It makes for some very depressing reading.

Exclusive: Grow Brixton to Pop Brixton – how a green oasis for the community turned into a 21st Century business park

Very good piece by Jason. Glad that EBS have decided to speak out.

What is depressing is that it could have been an example of how to deal with change and bring people together.

It's done the opposite. Most people I know don't like Pop. They thought they were going to get something different.
 
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A comment at end of Jason's piece from the bid that lost to Grow Brixton says he reckons they lost as there proposal appeared to be to commercial compared to the Grow Brixton one.

I'm not surprised they feel aggrieved.

For Lambeth to say they had no alternative to Turner is wrong . They could have given the land to the runner up.
 
I am dubious about this from CTA .......
At this point, the project was renamed Pop Brixton (POP being an acronym for ‘Places on Pope’s Rd’) and the scheme continued, ensuring the original goals and objectives of the project were maintained.
would a truer acronym be POPR Brixton, sounds like it was knocked up to order to divert attention from the fact it was commercial brand from the outset.......anyway I prefer the acronym Eyesore aka exclusive yuppie enclave on Station Road
 
Very good piece by Jason. Glad that EBS have decided to speak out.

What is depressing is that it could have been an example of how to deal with change and bring people together.

It's done the opposite. Most people I know don't like Pop. They thought they were going to get something different.

Would have been interesting to hear comments from some traders at Pop.
 
Would have been interesting to hear comments from some traders at Pop.
Why? What has that to do with the article? The traders/entrepreneurs aren't to blame or involved in what went on: they've just capitalised on the huge shift in direction from Grow to Pop and good luck to them.
 
Not sure where you drink, but I've never paid £4 for a small can of weak lager in any pub, club or restaurant I've ever been to around Brixton - and Pop Brixton isn't even a proper restaurant. It's a big makeshift wooden space made out of old shipping containers with temporary chairs and tables added. And don't forget: it's all supposed to be "for the community."
Completely missed the point. And again 'it's not all about you'.
 
Something I did not understand i n the article. The Bus Stop people said that the architect called there bluff and told them that if they did not resign from grow he would resign himself. Did they say why they did not just let him resign?

The story mentions that the council were keen to see the chosen project get off the ground. If the architect resigned and left the Bus Stop running Grow and he set up a new rival project, why did the Bus Stop think the council might follow the architect to a new different project? You can't force people to work together and I just wonder if they felt the project was a bit too complicated for them to go ahead without the archgitect but he felt differnetly. Or did they worried the original plan was too risky finacially and did not want to risk it alone?

I wonder what would have happened if they had called his bluff and let the architect resign!
 
Is this the same people who demolished the Canterbury and got planning permission for the ever growing block of flats?
If so there seems to be more to all this than meets the eye. If it was a larger bit of chicanery maybe it would get into Private Eye.
Yes. It makes you wonder what was the fucking point of the consultation. They'd already quietly asked to expand the site after planning permission was granted and now this. Something smells fishy.

May Developments applies to demolish Brixton’s Canterbury Arms and replace it with a nine-storey block of flats
Developer asks for extra units for luxury apartments on the site of the old Canterbury Arms boozer
 
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Something I did not understand i n the article. The Bus Stop people said that the architect called there bluff and told them that if they did not resign from grow he would resign himself. Did they say why they did not just let him resign?

The story mentions that the council were keen to see the chosen project get off the ground. If the architect resigned and left the Bus Stop running Grow and he set up a new rival project, why did the Bus Stop think the council might follow the architect to a new different project? You can't force people to work together and I just wonder if they felt the project was a bit too complicated for them to go ahead without the archgitect but he felt differnetly. Or did they worried the original plan was too risky finacially and did not want to risk it alone?

I wonder what would have happened if they had called his bluff and let the architect resign!

From what I can make out from the article and other sources, CTA brought the majority of the financial backing, so was much more able to manipulate events through threats to resign. Turner would have been vanishingly-unlikely to have actually resigned, and as he brought the majority of the "financing", Lambeth and their sheeplike councillors would have turned cartwheels to keep him on-board over and above EBS. As ever, Hopkins et al saw pound signs and lost control of their critical faculties.
 
Something I did not understand i n the article. The Bus Stop people said that the architect called there bluff and told them that if they did not resign from grow he would resign himself. Did they say why they did not just let him resign?

I wonder what would have happened if they had called his bluff and let the architect resign!

I read that section again.

They did refuse to resign. The paragraphs after the one where Turner tells them to resign or else he will discuss meetings between EBS and officers. Then mediation set up by Council. This all means that EBS called his bluff. If u follow the time line of what happened.

I know it's complicated but I think ur reading it wrong on that point.
 
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I read it wrong too. But looks like they gave up before he did. Be interesting to know what would have happened if CTA had quit instead.
 
**speculation only**

I reckon it probably went something like this.

CTA and EB put together an entry for the competition, probably in a hurry and not necessarily thinking they'd actually win it.

Then it became a real project. At this point everyone has to get a bit serious because it has to be paid for, and as far as I understand this wasn't just a design proposal but a business proposal. It's not like CTA and EB just have to work to produce designs for Lambeth or a developer, they have to fund it as well and it seems like a chunk of that funding was coming from CTA themselves (through that house sale).

And the reality of the project is that it was actually quite a sizeable and complex development that had to be built in a very short time (and the size/complexity probably became increasingly apparent during the period after winning the competition, while putting the planning application together). Something like that is not a small undertaking even for an architectural practice that is just doing the architectural work (let alone also worrying about the business risks). To do all the design work to get it to construction stage, to sort out planning permission and building regs and all the other stuff that you have to deal with is probably enough work to keep two employees at least busy for a good few months, perhaps more like a year.

So putting myself in Carl Turner's shoes, and I don't know him and he probably has a lot more business experience than me and I am just trying to imagine the scenario - I, at that point, would be breaking into a bit of a cold sweat because not only am I partly funding this thing with my own money/house and taking on the risk that the commercial side of things doesn't pan out but I am committing myself and at least some of my salaried employees to a load of work which we only get paid for if the business side of the project works out.

And I don't know loads about EB but as far as I understand they are a fairly small operation whose experience is doing small public space/landscaping projects which no doubt they are perfectly competent to do but I don't imagine they have the experience or resources to get stuck into all aspects of the technical design of something like Pop Brixton.

So with CTA investing a substantial amount of their own money, plus being the ones who would have to undertake the majority of the design work I can see why a 1/3 of 3-way split of decision-making power might start to look like rather a worrying arrangement. I can see why they might start to think they'd rather pay EB in proportion to their design input instead of continuing with them as equal-share business partners.

Of course I can also see how this could be massively unfair to EB, if its true that they were deliberately exploited and if there wasn't a genuine intention that they would be able to continue as equal partners, assuming that was the nature of the original agreement.

And if EB had called the bluff? I expect CTA would have resigned for the reasons above and the project would not have been able to go anywhere without a similar company coming on board which would probably have similar concerns and similarly would not want to go ahead on the terms which EB wanted.

All just my speculation though.

The Buzz article of course overstates the extent to which the final thing differs from what was originally proposed. Not interested in the detail of the bid entry, but the "green oasis" soundbite. Which I actually thought came from some PR attached to the original bid but the link in the article takes us to an instance of its use as PR for what's actually there now. :confused:
 
**speculation only**


And if EB had called the bluff? I expect CTA would have resigned for the reasons above and the project would not have been able to go anywhere without a similar company coming on board which would probably have similar concerns and similarly would not want to go ahead on the terms which EB wanted.

All just my speculation though.

The Buzz article of course overstates the extent to which the final thing differs from what was originally proposed. Not interested in the detail of the bid entry, but the "green oasis" soundbite. Which I actually thought came from some PR attached to the original bid but the link in the article takes us to an instance of its use as PR for what's actually there now. :confused:

No the Buzz article does not "of course" overstate. I would like an independent audit done to see if the Pop project is keeping to the original brief. I would also like the Council to canvass the local community on what they feel about the project. Very much doubt the Council will do either.

If Turner is much more experienced why did he make the mistake of making the two people from EBS have three way share of the original organisation with him? If the argument is that EBS are a bunch of dippy green community types with no business acumen why did Turner do this? And he had worked with them before at the Battersea project. So it not like he had only just worked with them.

After all EBS did call his bluff. They obviously refused to resign.

Worth quoting this:

The response from Turner was to call the bluff of his fellow Directors. He told Sandy and Gilchrist to resign, else he would resign and approach Lambeth directly to take 100% control of the project. A Freedom of Information request submitted by the EBS shows that he had already been in communications with Lambeth about his ambitions.

The EBS reminded Tom Bridgman, the Lead Delivery for Regeneration at Lambeth Council, that the Intellectual Property for Grow:Brixton was owned as part of a three way partnership.

An internal email sent by Bridgman responded to this reminder by simply saying: “Bugger.”

A meeting then took place a few days later between the EBS, Bridgman and Gary Meeds – a former Project Manager at Lambeth Council.

The EBS describe what took place during the meeting:

“It soon became clear that Bridgman and Meeds had met Carl prior to this meeting. By this stage the EBS had pledges totalling £167,000 – half the total budget as calculated by Carl Turner Architects at the time of the meeting. We had the capital that Carl claimed we couldn’t contribute.

So EBS did not resign. They then met senior officers. By this time they had raised money. It was them that the Council suggested mediation.

At any time Turner could have resigned. As he threatened to do if EBS did not. He didn’t. He went to mediation.

I wouldn’t mind so much if the Council had said that this was shit but Pop- more commercially orientated project- was the only option. What winds me up is the way the Council present it as a great success.

Funnily enough, prior to Jasons piece, I was at a meeting of the Brixton Neighbourhood Forum, and Bridgeman was there to tell us all about the wonderful projects that the Council was doing. Including Pop. Met with stony silence on that one. Most people I know have given up on it.

I don’t think Turner has demonstrated great business experience. But a lot of so called business acumen is winging it. He chanced it , got hard headed, got someone in with experience to run the business side of it ( Castaing) and had the Council support it through putting the Impact Business Hub there ( moved from the Town Hall). He also outmanoeuvred EBS with dealing with officers. Quite an operator.

( As well as the Impact Hub Council did not put up objection to the alterations to the original planning application that was put in by Grow. )

If Pop is an example of something its ruthless business with a bit of community thrown in. So its hard headed business with a bit of PR community stuff. He has shown himself to be a successful entrepreneur with a business model that can be replicated elsewhere.

All very well but hardly particularly radical use of a space to experiment on for a few years to find a different way of doing things.

I have talked to EBS a while back. Jasons article goes into more detail. They are more "fluffy". Trouble is in these time more community non commercial way of doing things is going to come up against brute realities of the market. The days of Red Ken and the GLC supporting projects is long gone.

So will the Council learn anything from this? Our Nu Labour Cllrs like Jacko think its wonderful. But they are Tory lite neo liberals who admire business or "entrepreneurship" as they term it.
 
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No the Buzz article does not "of course" overstate. I would like an independent audit done to see if the Pop project is keeping to the original brief. I would also like the Council to canvass the local community on what they feel about the project. Very much doubt the Council will do either.

If Turner is much more experienced why did he make the mistake of making the two people from EBS have three way share of the original organisation with him? If the argument is that EBS are a bunch of dippy green community types with no business acumen why did Turner do this? And he had worked with them before at the Battersea project. So it not like he had only just worked with them.

Does the Buzz article overstate the difference between the original proposal and what's there now? It does ask:

But is there much difference between the original Grow application, and what we now have in place at Pope’s Road as Pop Brixton?


And goes on to make some comments about positive and negative effects...but it doesn't attempt to answer its own question in any objective way. I think there might be a clue in the title about what the author reckons though, don't you?

Exclusive: Grow Brixton to Pop Brixton – how a green oasis for the community turned into a 21st Century business park

To me, presenting an opinion that is then unsubstantiated counts as overstatement. Yes, an independent audit would be very interesting and might well reveal that it has fallen substantially short of its promises. Or it might not. I look forward to the outcome of the latest FOI.

Do you think I'm making an argument that EBS are a bunch of dippy green types with no business acumen? I'm certainly not. I was trying to picture how the situation may have appeared to CTA once the full implications of the project were apparent and why they may have wanted to assert more control over it. This is to do with the kind of expertise, resources and decision-making processes necessary to pull off something like Pop Brixton. Whether this situation arose because of EBS being difficult, CTAs misjudgement, was part of a ruthless master plan or the result of Lambeth generally bungling procedures I can't judge.

Generally in my experience "collectives" like EBS, at least the successful ones often have considerable business acumen. Trying to paint these groups as dippy green types (whether as a compliment or insult) in contrast to a company such as CTA would be very misled. As far as I can make out they tend to be groups of people who mostly make their living doing other things and do the community-type projects for relatively small amounts of money that they are good at acquiring via grants or sponsorships. They do those projects because they enjoy them and/or feel they are worthwhile. They might well effectively do stuff for less than minimum wage and don't provide anyone with a secure job. On the other hand yes, CTA appears a more covertly commercial operation but I expect it provides several people with relatively long term properly paid employment, and I'm pretty sure that they are motivated by doing good quality and worthwhile stuff too. What they do is a lot better and I'm sure less profitable than the work done by so many more genuinely ruthlessly commercial type of architectural firms.

CTA and EBS are fairly different sorts of animals so I wouldn't assume one or the other necessarily to be more worthy than the other. It looks like they have both done worthwhile stuff to me.
 
Does the Buzz article overstate the difference between the original proposal and what's there now? It does ask:

But is there much difference between the original Grow application, and what we now have in place at Pope’s Road as Pop Brixton?


And goes on to make some comments about positive and negative effects...but it doesn't attempt to answer its own question in any objective way. I think there might be a clue in the title about what the author reckons though, don't you?

Exclusive: Grow Brixton to Pop Brixton – how a green oasis for the community turned into a 21st Century business park

To me, presenting an opinion that is then unsubstantiated counts as overstatement. Yes, an independent audit would be very interesting and might well reveal that it has fallen substantially short of its promises. Or it might not. I look forward to the outcome of the latest FOI.

What Jason says is this:

It would be naive to think that Grow:Brixton wasn’t a commercial operation. Although the land was given free by Lambeth Council, overheads and running costs had to be met. The landlord was also expecting a healthy share with 50% of the profit.

Community events do take place at Pop Brixton. A common complaint from many local people however is that it has little connection with Brixton. The experience of eating or drinking in the space can be pleasant. But you don’t get a sense that you are in a part of South London that has a very special and unique heritage.

Even handed enough for me. And accurate to say many local people feel it has little connection to them. Its what I hear.

The title of piece is quoting from the "PR" blurb and Cllr Hopkins. So not an invention of Jasons.

EBS have finally come out and said after giving it a year they are disappointed with the end result and the reasons why. Whether one agrees with what they say is up to the reader of the article.

Pop is going to divide people. Jason has his opinions but puts enough in the article for people to make up there own minds.
 
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Even handed enough for me. And accurate to say many local people feel it has little connection to them.

I don't agree with the apparently common complaint that Pop 'has little connection with Brixton'.

Not least because the tenants and traders that I know there are Brixton locals. And Pop claims 70 per cent are from Brixton or Lambeth.
 
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I don't agree with the apparently common complaint that Pop 'has little connection with Brixton'.

Not least because the tenants and traders that I know there are Brixton locals.
Please elaborate on the connection that you see between Pop Brixton - with its almost uniformly narrow demographic - and the bustling street scene outside.

Please tell me about the strong cultural and community connections you see it making with the Station Road cafes, the market traders, the local council estates, the former Canterbury pub's clientèle and the wonderful mix of all nations and all ages working, drinking, walking and relaxing within its immediate proximity.

This is a very fair representation of what I usually see when I pass by:

5.jpg
 
I don't agree with the apparently common complaint that Pop 'has little connection with Brixton'.

Not least because the tenants and traders that I know there are Brixton locals. And Pop claims 70 per cent are from Brixton or Lambeth.

You don’t have to agree. What I’m saying, from my experience, is that this is a common complaint. So Jason is right to report that.
 
Here's some images off their own Twitter feed, just to allay any predictably tiresome accusations of me supposedly being being selective or unrepresentative in the photos I've posted.







 
Here's some images off their own Twitter feed, just to allay any predictably tiresome accusations of me supposedly being being selective or unrepresentative in the photos I've posted.








I can't see how you can read anything into those photographs, least of all how they might possibly show whether the site represents the local community. Those pictures are quite meaningless, really...
 
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