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Police tactics/reaction to 'illegal' Raves

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    Votes: 6 60.0%
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    Votes: 4 40.0%

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    10
My guess is that they'd stay the fuck away. Call in A LOT of reinforcements, possibly army. Then wait for daylight, and for the smoke to clear.

Can you really see them wading into a 1000 strong crowd, with zero visibility? (so either the ravers run away and trample themselves, or they stand and protect themselves.) I think they'd have to be pretty stupid to do that. But who knows.....?
exactly how long do you expect this smoke to last?

my point above was that they'd take the few minutes the smoke took to clear to get themselves ready to hit you hard as soon as the smoke did clear. Also, if you had a stack of smoke bombs that you kept setting off, they'd have a helicopter pretty quick with night vision that can see straight through the smoke and direct the police in to whoever was throwing the smoke bombs... they'd also use the helicopter to blow the smoke away

btw have you ever even been anywhere near to police in riot gear?
 
No problem. Did I mention that I'm an anarchist? A real one. Not one of those idiots that believes in violence and total chaos.

Anarchy means no rulers, not no rules.
lol - yes dear.

and will you be informing the partygoers in advance that they are all taking part in a deliberate experiment to force the police to act so that you and your plastic anarchist mates can film it all as some kind of bizarre social experiment, then possibly try to sue the police for it afterwards.

so I think they'll be adding incitement to riot to your charge sheet if they decide to look on your computer for evidence once it has all kicked off.... except it won't be your charge sheet will it? because you'll have bottled it and either legged it when it kicked off, or kicked off then grassed you mates up to save your skin when your daddies lawyers explained the reality of the situation to you.

or are you prepared to do serious jail time for assaulting a police officer, which is where you're heading with this line of thinking?

and how will any of this help the anarchist cause?
 
*bangs head on desk*
will be checking what with what legal team?

The one employed by the people that I work for.

you actually think you've got a legal team with a better understanding of the law regarding raves than me, detective boy, and the rest of the people on this thread?

Sure. They have this big book and it contains all the law in codified format, and they're trained to read and interpret it. What they don't know is anything about real life, which is why I'm talking to you guys. Respect.

sorry mate, but show some fucking respect - I and the others on this thread have earned it, we've been there and done it for fucking years, you from the sounds of it have a very short, steep learning curve ahead of you before your rig gets impounded on your first party, and several of your crew get big fines / sent down.

I have shown nothing but respect for EVERYONE who has posted on this thread. Even the rude fucks that do not deserve any respect.


and while I can't remember the exact precedent for DJ's being viewed legally as being 'materially involved in the organisation' - I can guarantee you it exists because that was how they ended up busting me - and I read through the case law trying to find a hole in it, and there wasn't one... well actually I thought it was about 50/50 that I could successfully argue the point on semantics, but fuck all chance that a magistrate would look at it like that, so I took the caution as the best option.

I have to meet the lawyers this weekend : ( . I'll tell you what they come up with if I'm feeling generous. I'm not doubting you, don't worry. Just want the details.



sorry, but what exactly are you saying hasn't been tried before?

you think the idea that everyone owns the rig, nobody's in charge, everybody's in charge is new?

it's not, this is like going back in time 10 years and being a fly on the wall at the first meeting to pull our free party crew together.

take a look at norfolk to see the results of the kind of line you're taking, then look at the places where parties that are as big or bigger than the ones in norfolk have been going on for 20 years with virtually no major problems with the police, and ask yourself what it might have been that made these areas different.

golden rule is don't start fights you can't win, back off, deflect, live to party another day or you'll not just fuck it up for yourselves, you'll fuck it up for every other crew in your area.


Probably good advice. No doubt we are too arrogant for our own good. Time will tell.
 
No problem. Did I mention that I'm an anarchist? A real one. Not one of those idiots that believes in violence and total chaos.

Anarchy means no rulers, not no rules.

do you want to know where I was when 3-4,000 anarchists were in Stirling trying to shut down the G8 with 12,000 riot police to stop us?

manning the main gate to the protest campsite facing down 800 of those riot police who were blocading the site, and ensuring they didn't storm the site while the main hardcore protesters were offsite and only sleeping kids and parents were left.

try running a 10 day autonomous zone for 3-4,000 people, surrounded by a continuous police blockade, police helicopters overhead, and over 500 people getting nicked (and needing picking up from courts all over scotland) - yet the police were not allowed access to the site until the entire thing was over.

then, and only then will you have even come close to earning the right to come and shout the odds on here about being a real anarchist.

congrats on your data mining excercise btw
 
you stupid cunt....

you really haven't a clue how this works do you?


Have I said something stupid? Do you want to give some reasoning for this view point? oh... don't worry, we'll just take your word for it !
 
exactly how long do you expect this smoke to last?

my point above was that they'd take the few minutes the smoke took to clear to get themselves ready to hit you hard as soon as the smoke did clear. Also, if you had a stack of smoke bombs that you kept setting off, they'd have a helicopter pretty quick with night vision that can see straight through the smoke and direct the police in to whoever was throwing the smoke bombs... they'd also use the helicopter to blow the smoke away

btw have you ever even been anywhere near to police in riot gear?

The MOD site is actually mostly covered in trees. Someone mentioned a cammo net canopy, but I guess that is really overkill. We can easily put down enough smoke. And why would the police risk it when they can just wait it out? Hah. Can you imagine the thermal cam chopper directing the riot police? "club to the left, left ! ... errr no, my left.... ouch !"


hehe. Probably shouldn't be telling you this, but funnily enough I was with the wombles at G8. I didn't do anything, but yeah, I was there. Watching. Learning. Not pretty. Please don't ask any further questions about this as I won't answer them.
 
The one employed by the people that I work for.



Sure. They have this big book and it contains all the law in codified format, and they're trained to read and interpret it. What they don't know is anything about real life, which is why I'm talking to you guys. Respect.



I have shown nothing but respect for EVERYONE who has posted on this thread. Even the rude fucks that do not deserve any respect.




I have to meet the lawyers this weekend : ( . I'll tell you what they come up with if I'm feeling generous. I'm not doubting you, don't worry. Just want the details.






Probably good advice. No doubt we are too arrogant for our own good. Time will tell.


hahahaahahaha - is there any way I can buy a ticket to watch you try to convince a bunch of lawyers that it's fine for you to go ahead with a party on land that's got warning signs on it from the MOD stating that there are / maybe unexploded ordanence on the site.


btw just to give you lawyer people a head start, I believe the case law about DJ's is from around 1994 in Manchester.

the relevant laws you will be breaking / charges you will be facing I believe are:-

entertainments without a license
possibly CJA
reckless endangerment
health and safety at work breaches
if anyone did die, then corporate manslaughter

then if anyone attempts to prevent the police turning off the rig
Obstruction of Police Officer.
Resisting arrest
and quite likely assualt of a police officer

and if it all kicks off bigtime and they sus out that you deliberately set out to cause this to happen - incitement to riot

for starters.

now do you want to go away and have a look at the penalties for those, and then maybe have a think about exactly how stupid you want to look in front of these lawyers?

my offer is still open btw, but the rate just went up significantly, and I'd only do it if I can bring my own crew as your lot seem like a bunch of jokers.
 
do you want to know where I was when 3-4,000 anarchists were in Stirling trying to shut down the G8 with 12,000 riot police to stop us?

manning the main gate to the protest campsite facing down 800 of those riot police who were blocading the site, and ensuring they didn't storm the site while the main hardcore protesters were offsite and only sleeping kids and parents were left.

try running a 10 day autonomous zone for 3-4,000 people, surrounded by a continuous police blockade, police helicopters overhead, and over 500 people getting nicked (and needing picking up from courts all over scotland) - yet the police were not allowed access to the site until the entire thing was over.

then, and only then will you have even come close to earning the right to come and shout the odds on here about being a real anarchist.

congrats on your data mining excercise btw


HAHA. I probably DO know you! I'm certainly going to get a background check on you. You've given us more than enough info to identify you IRL.
 
hehe. Probably shouldn't be telling you this, but funnily enough I was with the wombles at G8. I didn't do anything, but yeah, I was there. Watching. Learning. Not pretty. Please don't ask any further questions about this as I won't answer them.
lol - well that explains it then. You were with the wombles, but didn't actually do anything?

I said I was a good judge of character didn't I... all mouth no trousers

I don't need to ask any more questions, you've answered them all already.
 
lol - yes dear.

and will you be informing the partygoers in advance that they are all taking part in a deliberate experiment to force the police to act so that you and your plastic anarchist mates can film it all as some kind of bizarre social experiment, then possibly try to sue the police for it afterwards.

so I think they'll be adding incitement to riot to your charge sheet if they decide to look on your computer for evidence once it has all kicked off.... except it won't be your charge sheet will it? because you'll have bottled it and either legged it when it kicked off, or kicked off then grassed you mates up to save your skin when your daddies lawyers explained the reality of the situation to you.

or are you prepared to do serious jail time for assaulting a police officer, which is where you're heading with this line of thinking?

and how will any of this help the anarchist cause?

Duh. Did I not just say that I don't approve of violence? Yes, I was with the wombles, no, I am not one of them. Although I was once accused of being too hardcore at one of their meetings. They were talking about disabling CCTV with laser pointers. I told them to get a decent paintball gun and scope. *shrug*
 
Duh. Did I not just say that I don't approve of violence? Yes, I was with the wombles, no, I am not one of them. Although I was once accused of being too hardcore at one of their meetings. They were talking about disabling CCTV with laser pointers. I told them to get a decent paintball gun and scope. *shrug*
the cctv cameras that matter have windscreen wipers.

best way to take them out properly is shin up it / bring a ladder and gaffa tape a bin bag round it (or twat it really hard with a hammer, but then that's criminal damage).

not that I'm suggesting anyone should do such a thing, just a hypothetical obviously.
 
Sounds awesome! whats the music policy going to be, and have you thought of a name yet?
too bad Boom is already taken...
 
and that's the way it will stay unless you and your rich backers / whoever you work for decides they want to employ someone who knows what they're doing to run this party for them.

My rate is £250 per day consultancy, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the cost of the equipment that you're seriously risking getting seized, and fines you're looking at.

or you could just take the advice I and others on here with shedloads of experience including an ex copper with a worryingly deep understanding of the law who I think charges way more than me for his consultancy services outside of urban.

Bottom line, when you ask for advice and a lot of very experienced people give you advice that is virtually identical, the sensible option is to take that advice.

Oh, cool. Are you serious? We'll probably give you a call when we've finished the background check. Although, you did get caught so you're not as clever as you could be. Hmmm.

sorry, who you work for?

the real question is do the people you work for understand that you are seriously talking about risking them getting charged with reckless endangerment of a thousand peoples lives - on top of ents without a license which has a maximum fine of £20k, and if it's a company they're much more likely to fine you the maximum amount.

obviously if when you say money's not an issue, you mean you're all seriously wealthy city types who don't mind paying £20k fines, then feel free to ignore the advice of us mere plebs.

Yeah. No. You've been very helpful. Thank you.
 
You'd love us to fail, wouldn't you? Awww, why are you so full of anger and hate? It's sad, man. Have you tried pills?

PLURR
here's how it works.

you go head to head with the police, stir things up on your noble anarchist crusade, then probably fuck it off when it gets too heavy for you.

any other crews that party in the area after you, get jumped on because the police don't differentiate much between crews, and just go off their recent experience - never mind that those crews have been throwing parties in the same area for years without any real bother with the police or locals.

if you actually succeed in pushing it, then winning any court case, the outraged local mp will go to parliament and get the fucking law changed, which then effects every crew nationwide.

so question for you. Will your rich backers be paying the fines of the other crews that get fucked over because you decided to go on a well funded ego trip?

no, well then you need to learn the meaning of PLUR - ie Peace, Love, Unity and RESPECT

we have both unity and respect on this thread among everyone who's done anything for the rave / party scene (plus a fair amount of peace and love) - then we have you.
 
interests: A.I. hacking. datamining. philosophy. brainwar

datamining eh... ok I see, in that case you actually are potentially quite good at what you do, couldn't resist telling us in your profile through could you?

Awww. you're too kind. Hmmm, maybe they're not paying me enough.
 
Things I said but you probably didn't read or you did and just forgot:

* It's for charity.

* I don't approve of violence. I don't want ANYONE to get hurt.

* It's my job to consider worst case scenarios.
 
here's how it works.

you go head to head with the police, stir things up on your noble anarchist crusade, then probably fuck it off when it gets too heavy for you.

any other crews that party in the area after you, get jumped on because the police don't differentiate much between crews, and just go off their recent experience - never mind that those crews have been throwing parties in the same area for years without any real bother with the police or locals.

if you actually succeed in pushing it, then winning any court case, the outraged local mp will go to parliament and get the fucking law changed, which then effects every crew nationwide.

so question for you. Will your rich backers be paying the fines of the other crews that get fucked over because you decided to go on a well funded ego trip?

no, well then you need to learn the meaning of PLUR - ie Peace, Love, Unity and RESPECT

we have both unity and respect on this thread among everyone who's done anything for the rave / party scene (plus a fair amount of peace and love) - then we have you.


There is no anarchist crusade. Stop letting your imagination run away with itself. And at no point did I say that the people I work for are anarchists. I probably should have made it explicit that those were my personal views.

I think it's funny that you seem to disapprove of violence at raves and yet you're trying to insult me by saying that I'd run away, or something. (also you suggested that I was a bad person for not helping the wombles pick up litter... errr. I mean fight their riot warz.)

And I said PLURR. Peace, Love, Unity, Respect and RESPONSIBILITY. Go figure.

Trust us. We are smarter than you, and we want the best for the future of humanity.
Now I'm getting way too arrogant. I apologize.
 
Oh, cool. Are you serious? We'll probably give you a call when we've finished the background check.
If this is a paid job then I'm always serious... depending exactly who this is I'd be working for.

Although, you did get caught so you're not as clever as you could be. Hmmm.
did I mention that the one I got busted for wasn't my party, and I took a caution to prevent the rig getting impounded because the rig belonged to a mate of mine after the fuckwit who's idea the entire thing was, and who had said he'd do police liason and take the fall for it if need be had fucked off, and the only other guy left who was involved had already got previous conviction for ents without a license from years ago so would have had a severe fine this time.

As in the party had finished, there were 2 of us watching the rig, with a police camera van driving round, a chief inspector who'd been got out of bed at 4am to take a decision on what to do because the police liason person had bottled it and was definately either going to impound the rig, or arrest somebody, and then a pissed group of my mates sat there keeping an eye on me. Now I could have let the rig get impounded, or I could have let the guy with form take the fall for it again and get a big fine, or I could have got my pissed mates to intervene and get nicked for drunk and disorderly, or I could have got one of them to take the fall instead... but I'm not like that, I took the hit myself.

I talked it down to a caution though without grassing anybody up, and then carried on being safety officer for a 12,000 capacity festival the guy who gave me a caution was the licensing officer for with no problems.

Yeah. No. You've been very helpful. Thank you.
ay, well that's what urbans about, though i think you've been pretty sly in how you've gone about this... like I said after my first posts though, I'd been meaning to write the update for the guide for the main site for the last year, so it wasn't all you using me;)
 
HAHA. I probably DO know you! I'm certainly going to get a background check on you. You've given us more than enough info to identify you IRL.
You quite possibly have met me, I've been around a while, and to be honest while there were lots of sound people involved in the whole dissent thing, and a few with a bit of a rave / events background, it'd not be hard to work out who I am from that alone.

I could very easily do a background check on myself from urban, so I'm sure you can too - I'm well aware of this, and gave up any pretense to proper anonymity here in about 2002. This is a place where I come to play rather than work though, and doesn't really encourage people to advertise events etc. so you'll only get a little part of me from here, there should be enough clues for you to follow through to the rest if you so desire.

btw my current take on you is that you work as some sort of creative with an ad agency / PR agency looking at ways of generating exposure through holding illegal raves, and pushing things to provoke the police into taking action that will then get media coverage (with your help), and get your brand associated with a subculture that's gained a bit of exposure recently through stuff like skins... either that or you're just planning to film it and use the footage directly for something, fly on the wall thing maybe?

so you're not massively arsed about a small fine, as it can all be budgeted for, and justified by the column inches generated / picture / tv coverage, and you need the police involvement to get you the coverage anyway... at least that's how you're justifying it to yourself / your boss, but it's also allowing yourself to test out some of your inner anarchists ideas

am I in the right ballpark?

btw - I never thought your employers were anarchists, just doing a little datamining of my own;)
 
Things I said but you probably didn't read or you did and just forgot:

* It's for charity.
ok, but you don't work this charity do you, and you haven't asked their permission to use their name in relation to this event yet - or if you have you haven't told them the nature of the event, or that it's going to be unlicensed have you, as there's no charity I've worked with that would touch this with a bargepole due to the serious potential for it to fuck up the charities reputation, which isn't worth the risk of a potential few grand income, or more likely a few hundred quid.

* I don't approve of violence. I don't want ANYONE to get hurt.
Good, neither do I (other than a very limited range of circumstances where a small amount of targeted violence could end a much greater amount of violence)

Problem is that the way you're going about this seems to have the serious potential to provoke the police into using violence, which will inevitably lead to people getting hurt - and quite likely a few pissed people taking it upon themselves to defend the rig / themselves and potentially getting nicked for assaulting a police officer or something.

* It's my job to consider worst case scenarios.
and it's often my job to come in last minute and pick up the pieces when someone's gone off on one and bitten off more than they can chew.

I don't just do risk assessment, I also do risk mitigation, and trouble shooting for events... and when the shit does hit the fan, I'm usually the one sorting it out. The best way to avoid worst case scenarios though is to get someone seriously experienced to identify the risks in advance, identify the measures to take to avoid as many of the risks as possible, minimise the rest, and have the capacity to Identify and deal with any remaining problems before they become a major problem during the event.

The worst case scenario for a rave is either to have someone injure themselves because you've done the rave in a potential death trap, or to have the police think the place you're doing it is a potential death trap because it's marked as such, and come in and batter the fuck out of everyone (for their own good), then prosecute the organisers for anything they can think of. Hence the reason that every single person on this thread with experience of running raves has told you not to even consider using this MOD site.

so stop considering worst case scenarios, and take one of 2 potential courses of action... one get a professionally competent person / company to thoroughly check the site and sign off on it as being safe... or 2, abandon this site and find a different site.

anyway, I have some real paid work to be doing rounding up the rest of the trouble shooting team I run for a certain largescale electronic music festival that's taking place shortly, so here endeth the free advice.

If you want to hire me use the pm system on here to make me an offer.
 
Fuck it, one more...

And I said PLURR. Peace, Love, Unity, Respect and RESPONSIBILITY.

aha, so you do know the word then:D

yes, when you throw a party you are responsible for the welfare of all the people who attend that party. They put their trust in you to have done your homework, and not planned a party for a site that will potentially endanger them from unexploded bombs (ok prob unlikely, but still possible), or more likely endanger them because of the massive increase in the likelihood of the police come in to close the party down due to the warning signs.

You also have a responsibility to other crews and party heads to not deliberately antagonise the long term situation by being irresponsible to the point where you change the polices attitude, and make the situation worse for everyone in the local area, or in the worst cases nationally - eg the law changes proposed as a direct result of the norfolk lot taking a confrontational approach.

if you are an anarchist then you'll understand this - it's more than just words to me you see.
 
ste 9 at his awesome rave said:
Hey Tarquin look some people came dressed up as proper soldiers with guns and everthing - that is so totally Jackson. We are the anarchist massif. Pass me an unexploded shell case my nigga.

:rolleyes:
 
I also give the same disclaimer as free spirit as above, try quoting me now cunt.

Rereading the thread, it amuses me that free spirit felt the need to add a copyright to his/her posts, where as snadge felt the need to add a disclaimer.
 
"Originally Posted by ste 9 at his awesome rave
Hey Tarquin look some people came dressed up as proper soldiers with guns and everthing - that is so totally Jackson. We are the anarchist massif. Pass me an unexploded shell case my nigga."

WTF. I didn't say that ! I'll sue !

In fact I hate people that wear DPM.
 
And I said PLURR. Peace, Love, Unity, Respect and RESPONSIBILITY. Go figure.

Highly peaceful and responsible -- planning a party whose no. 1 potential site is apparantly MOD land with signs warning of unexploded ordnance! :rolleyes:

ETA : Oh, I might have known free spirit would beat me to that one! :oops: But the point stands.

free spirit said:
is there any way I can buy a ticket to watch you try to convince a bunch of lawyers that it's fine for you to go ahead with a party on land that's got warning signs on it from the MOD stating that there are / maybe unexploded ordanence on the site.


btw just to give you lawyer people a head start, I believe the case law about DJ's is from around 1994 in Manchester.

the relevant laws you will be breaking / charges you will be facing I believe are:-

entertainments without a license
possibly CJA
reckless endangerment
health and safety at work breaches
if anyone did die, then corporate manslaughter

then if anyone attempts to prevent the police turning off the rig
Obstruction of Police Officer.
Resisting arrest
and quite likely assualt of a police officer

and if it all kicks off bigtime and they sus out that you deliberately set out to cause this to happen - incitement to riot

for starters.

now do you want to go away and have a look at the penalties for those, and then maybe have a think about exactly how stupid you want to look in front of these lawyers?

You haven't actually taken any notice of the above at all, have you?

Yer a reckless idiot. Or possibly (still!) a journalist ...

Anybody -- what exactly is 'datamining'?? :confused:
 
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