Police tactics/reaction to 'illegal' Raves

[ste9]

So do I, I thought he was genuine at first but ....

OK. Supposing I'm a delusional stoner kid. Supposing I'm a journalist. Supposing I'm a cop (why?). Supposing I'm a philosopher. Sure, it's plausible that I'm any of those things.

So what?

I'd like to have a discussion about free parties and the future of humanity. I'd like people to talk about the law, the police, civil disobedience, and so on. I think these topics are important. Why is this making some of you so angry? It's just information/discussion/ideas. Don't be afraid.

 

[Chemical needs]

People put a lot of time and effort into free parties (not raves - check the history, the term 'rave' has negative/ commercial implications & connotations), and Free Spirit put a lot of effort into providing you with top notch information.

Smoke grenades and sites that potentially have unexploded munitions on run somewhat against the ethos of the guidelines and suggestions that FS has provided, don'tcha think?

 

[ste9]

People put a lot of time and effort into free parties (not raves - check the history, the term 'rave' has negative/ commercial implications & connotations), and Free Spirit put a lot of effort into providing you with top notch information.

Smoke grenades and sites that potentially have unexploded munitions on run somewhat against the ethos of the guidelines and suggestions that FS has provided, don'tcha think?

I/we/they prefer to call them raves, actually. If people are ignorant as to the meanings of words, then that's their problem. And yes, we are media savvy.

All I was asking is; WHAT IF this happens? As I've explained before, it's my job to consider everything.

As for the munitions, we've assessed the risks and decided that they're acceptable. You can't understand this assessment unless you have the facts, which you don't. Further more, anyone attending will be made aware of the facts, and can decide for themselves if they wish to take the 'risk'. All I can tell you is that you're about a million times more likely to die in a car crash on the way there, than you are to be blown up.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

As for the munitions, we've assessed the risks and decided that they're acceptable. You can't understand this assessment unless you have the facts, which you don't. Further more, anyone attending will be made aware of the facts, and can decide for themselves if they wish to take the 'risk'. All I can tell you is that you're about a million times more likely to die in a car crash on the way there, than you are to be blown up.

You're still completely missing the point.

 

[Mooncat]

I/we/they prefer to call them raves, actually. If people are ignorant as to the meanings of words, then that's their problem.

No one and I mean NO ONE calls them raves any more. Not even the coppers I've 'liaised' with. Its not the early 90's you know.

 

[ste9]

No one and I mean NO ONE calls them raves any more. Not even the coppers I've 'liaised' with. Its not the early 90's you know.

Exactly. We have our reasons for being different. Words and things go in and out of fashion.

 

[Dan U]

seriously ste9 the MOD site with munitions signs on it is a bad idea.

it's red rag to a bull time.

 

[ste9]

You're still completely missing the point.

Enlighten me.

 

[detective-boy]

You MUST have a police liason person who'se fully prepared to talk to the police when / if they do come.

Excellent advice in the post. There are two approaches to the police. The one described isn't guaranteed to work but the vast majority of officers, the vast majority of the time will not interfere with something which isn't pissing off the entire neighbourhood and leading to dozens of complaints. The alternative - everyone starts having a go, things start getting thrown, etc. - invariably DOES result in reinforcements being called and people getting nicked, kit getting confiscated, etc.

(This advice also works in routine dealings with the police - get in their face and you'll get a far worse reaction than if you don't. It's called human nature ... )

 

[Ground Elder]

Enlighten me.

The point is, as I'm sure you must know really, is not whether you are likely to blow yourself up, but that the police will come down on you much harder if you party (or rave even) in a sign posted mine field

As I've explained before, it's my job to consider everything.

Have you considered that you might not be the best man for this job?

 

[ste9]

The point is, as I'm sure you must know really, is not whether you are likely to blow yourself up, but that the police will come down on you much harder if you party (or rave even) in a sign posted mine field

OK. I know this. I already made it clear that I have understood this point.

Please drop the munitions thing, unless you have something further to say about it that is USEFUL. E.g if you can cite factual information about a rave that was busted on land that may have contained munitions, and the legal outcome. Or if you can give details about what the law says on the matter, etc. All I seem to be getting is "blah blah blah MOD blah blah blah military police blah blah blah explosives blah blah blah throw the book at you". This is not USEFUL. I want facts/precedents.


"Have you considered that you might not be the best man for this job?"

Cute. Guess what? I didn't hire me.

 

[mitochondria]

ste9 you sound a bit like some kind of a bot. gathering information for a mighty AI.

 

[ste9]

ste9 you sound a bit like some kind of a bot. gathering information for a mighty AI.

( :

I take this as a huge complement. Thank you.

 

[Ground Elder]

if you can cite factual information about a rave that was busted on land that may have contained munitions, and the legal outcome.

Perhaps there is no legal precedent because nobody has been stupid enough to try it before

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I/we/they prefer to call them raves, actually. If people are ignorant as to the meanings of words, then that's their problem. And yes, we are media savvy.

All I was asking is; WHAT IF this happens? As I've explained before, it's my job to consider everything.

As for the munitions, we've assessed the risks and decided that they're acceptable. You can't understand this assessment unless you have the facts, which you don't. Further more, anyone attending will be made aware of the facts, and can decide for themselves if they wish to take the 'risk'. All I can tell you is that you're about a million times more likely to die in a car crash on the way there, than you are to be blown up.

You're talking absolute bollocks. If you 'prefer to call them raves', you wouldn't be on here shiteing on about absolute fucking nonsense.

'we are media savvy' ffs

Your job to consider everything you say. Ok consider this. If the level of knowledge and intution you've displayed so far is anything to go by, I can't think of a more dangerous people to be involved in putting on a rave than you and your chums. Happy partying fucksticks......

 

[Dan U]

Please drop the munitions thing, unless you have something further to say about it that is USEFUL. E.g if you can cite factual information about a rave that was busted on land that may have contained munitions, and the legal outcome. Or if you can give details about what the law says on the matter, etc. All I seem to be getting is "blah blah blah MOD blah blah blah military police blah blah blah explosives blah blah blah throw the book at you". This is not USEFUL. I want facts/precedents.

some years ago a multi rigger was attempted on MOD land on a bank holiday weekend down in Hampshire. It turns out the land was a bit more active than anyone thought and they got told to leave in no uncertain terms by the red caps or the squaddies would be down.

they then set up on the A3 near Cobham which was another bad idea as it was only about a year after the Met got serious egg on there face at Tolworth Tek but that is an entirely different story

The police didn't let the second site go on either, in fact they turned the A3 in to a car park of meat wagons before clearing the site in full armour. I could go on.

I've been to other parties on MOD land but never on land clearly prescribed as active munitions.

The people telling you these things on here have been throwing or around parties for a long time.

 

[snadge]

Tell the loonspud nothing, fucking idiot.

 

[detective-boy]

This is not USEFUL. I want facts/precedents.

MOD property may or may not be subject to additional protection compared to ordinary land. It may be defined as a "prohibited place" (signs should make this clear at the boundaries). If it is, powers of arrest exist and it is a criminal offence to trespass / take photos. In various places by-laws may exist which provide more than usual protection to the land and which may create offences and provide the authorities with powers.

But much MOD property is simply private property just like anyone else's and all that simple trespass is is a civil offence for which you can be sued. You can, however, be requested to leave and, if you do not leave, reasonable and necessary force can be used to remove you. Where MOD land differs from ordinary land in this respect is that there may well be services staff and / or the MOD police specifically interested in removing you where in the case of ordinary land the civilian police wil often leave the landowner to get a court order, etc.

I've got to say, I wouldn't have thought selecting MOD property was the best idea - it is far more likely to bring you problems than land owned by others!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Enlighten me.

There's clearly no point, you're ignoring anything you don't want to hear.

Go ahead, have your party wherever the fuck you want, ignore the advice of people who've been doing this thing for years, and enjoy getting your head kicked in by pc plod, coz I coudln't give a fuck about you any more quite frankly.

 

[paolo]

Thanks for the clarification DB - I wasn't wholly sure myself, re: criminal trespass.

 

[Supine]

There are a lot of good posts on this thread. FS being one of them, as is detective boy who always comes up trumps.

The idiot that started this thread though is wasting everyones time. Including mine! which is pissing me off.

Go dance on a minefield for all I care. Just wonder why someone bothered putting the friggin sign up! and don't invite me to your party

 

[ste9]

Tell the loonspud nothing, fucking idiot.

Hmmm. Could you please send the personal insults via PM, instead of wasting space on my thread. Thanks.

 

[ste9]

There are a lot of good posts on this thread. FS being one of them, as is detective boy who always comes up trumps.

The idiot that started this thread though is wasting everyones time. Including mine! which is pissing me off.

Go dance on a minefield for all I care. Just wonder why someone bothered putting the friggin sign up! and don't invite me to your party

*sigh*. It's not a minefield. Stop making things up and pretending that they're true. You don't have the facts. We've done risk assessment. Plus, the MOD land is only one potential site.

How am I wasting your time? Just stop reading the thread. Your choice.

 

[ste9]

There's clearly no point, you're ignoring anything you don't want to hear.

Go ahead, have your party wherever the fuck you want, ignore the advice of people who've been doing this thing for years, and enjoy getting your head kicked in by pc plod, coz I coudln't give a fuck about you any more quite frankly.

Huh? I'm not ignoring anyone. I'm listening, and I appreciate all the posts containing useful information. When have I ever said that anyone is wrong?

 

[ste9]

You're talking absolute bollocks. If you 'prefer to call them raves', you wouldn't be on here shiteing on about absolute fucking nonsense.

I don't follow your reasoning. How does your conclusion follow from your premise?

'we are media savvy' ffs

Your job to consider everything you say. Ok consider this. If the level of knowledge and intution you've displayed so far is anything to go by, I can't think of a more dangerous people to be involved in putting on a rave than you and your chums. Happy partying fucksticks......

I haven't tried to display any level of knowledge. In fact, I claimed to be starting from an empty mind. I have simply asked some questions.

 

[Ground Elder]

 

[Mooncat]

The alternative - everyone starts having a go, things start getting thrown, etc. - invariably DOES result in reinforcements being called and people getting nicked, kit getting confiscated, etc.

You can bet your last biscuit that the first person to throw something doesn't have his rig there

 

[ste9]

hehe. IT'S NOT A FUCKING minefield. I'm talking about the MOD site, btw. Urban75 clearly IS a minefield. Is all this hatred and anger normal here?

 

[free spirit]

No, no. I'm not ignoring anything. I'm simply asking for some reasoning. Some explanation. Freespirit said it's better to have one person to take the wrap. I'd like to know why this is. And what could happen if nobody takes the wrap. thanks.

Ok the first step is to have a police liason person to hopefully stop it getting to the stage where someone has to take the rap for it.

however if this fails, and they're threatening to impound the rig unless someone owns upto it what are you going to do?

stand there and tell them nobody organised it, then the police will simply impound the rig and keep it until someone turns up to collect it - or impound the van if it's obvious which van it came in / do a check on the owner of the van etc.

basically it'll end up coming back on whoever owns the rig, plus they could finger print the rig once they've impounded it and any of your crew who have any kind of a record wil get pulled in for it... or they can pull anyone who's dj'd as there is case law stating that a dj is 'materially involved in the organising of a rave', so anyone carrying record bags could be nicked or lose their record bags.

bottom line is there are unwritten rules to this game of cat and mouse, one of which is that if you take the piss and stick the rig back on / turn it up after being told not to, and they have to come back out to shut you down - then the very least they need is a sacrificial lamb so they can show that they've done their job and someone is going to be punished for it.

basically just don't try to be clever cunts about it - you think you're the first people to have tried that line with the police? Every police force in the country has been dealing with raves for 20 years, and they know the law and how to used it if you piss them about a shitload better than you.

they also have pepper spray, batons, riot shields etc. if it comes to it, and have no problem with trashing kit.



basically I'm giving you the benefit of my experience, and you've got another 5-6 at least who are also very experienced in throwing free parties all telling you the same thing.

btw the police also have no problem nicking several van loads of people for drunk & disorderly or obstruction of a police officer or any number of other offences if it comes down to it.

 

[snadge]

I don't follow your reasoning. How does your conclusion follow from your premise?

your premise if you will.

haven't tried to display any level of knowledge. In fact, I claimed to be starting from an empty mind. I have simply asked some questions.

That's the trouble with empty minds, there's nowt there to retain information.