Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[MickiQ]

I don't think he defended them, he was pointing out the basic facts of the situation.

This is what he actually said:

The Plod in the interview is waffling like a boss, he knows that he is trying to defend a position that most people would find indefensible, I wonder if they drew straws and the loser got to go and be interviewed.

 

[Wilf]

Meanwhile... my friends at the DM, having missed out on last night's flowerstomp#4 won't be making that mistake again and have a reporter on the scene running live updates - literally. For example, at 12:28 today, somebody said they could 'understand why the floral tributes had been cut down'.

When it comes to exploiting an old man's trauma and a family's grief, I think the DM are close to running the well dry now.

 

[Wilf]

Ah, hang on! At 14:02 we had the first mention of political correctness. Right, that's it pack up the cameras, all the cards have been played here now.

 

[MickiQ]

Ah, hang on! At 14:02 we had the first mention of political correctness. Right, that's it pack up the cameras, all the cards have been played here now.

Nope not yet this is the Fail it needs to find a way to blame something on the EU and migrants.

 

[hot air baboon]

What a load of bollocks.

it's pretty advanced level whataboutery tbf - although in certain lighting conditions this can be quite easily mistaken for a load of sweaty great bollocks

 

[patman post]

Though the local residents complained they were fed up with problems caused by travellers which, if the papers are correct, are the same group from which the dead man came and are threatening to make the pensioner’s life a misery...

 

[bemused]

The Plod in the interview is waffling like a boss, he knows that he is trying to defend a position that most people would find indefensible, I wonder if they drew straws and the loser got to go and be interviewed.

He's not trying to defend anything. Laying flowers on the road isn't illegal, I'd rather the police weren't encouraged to make up laws on the fly - which seems to be the ask here be the 'shouldn't be allowed' folks.

No one is breaking the law here, it is nothing to do with the police.

 

[MickiQ]

He's not trying to defend anything. Laying flowers on the road isn't illegal, I'd rather the police weren't encouraged to make up laws on the fly - which seems to be the ask here be the 'shouldn't be allowed' folks.

No one is breaking the law here, it is nothing to do with the police.

The family aren't laying flowers on the road, they're attaching them to a fence which they don't own, this isn't a crime it's a civil matter for the owner of the fence if he so chooses, But it's not a crime to take them off and chuck them away and/or stamp all over them either but the Plod have apparently threatened to arrest people for that but not the attaching.
The interviewer was trying to get the high ranking Plod in the video to come out and admit this but he was having none of it and was adroitly dodging giving a straight answer.
I have a fair amount of sympathy for the plod in this case, feelings are running high and the last thing they want to do is find themselves breaking up a brawl between the locals and the family but the Plod need to apply the law evenly not fudge the issue even if their intentions are good.

 

[bemused]

The family aren't laying flowers on the road, they're attaching them to a fence which they don't own, this isn't a crime it's a civil matter for the owner of the fence if he so chooses, But it's not a crime to take them off and chuck them away and/or stamp all over them either but the Plod have apparently threatened to arrest people for that but not the attaching.
The interviewer was trying to get the high ranking Plod in the video to come out and admit this but he was having none of it and was adroitly dodging giving a straight answer.
I have a fair amount of sympathy for the plod in this case, feelings are running high and the last thing they want to do is find themselves breaking up a brawl between the locals and the family but the Plod need to apply the law evenly not fudge the issue even if their intentions are good.

His answer was reasonable. The police said if you are going to or are breaching the peace they'll arrest you. The answer to the question 'if I pull the flowers down will I get arrested' can't be 'no'.

At this point, the guy isn't living there and we're witnessing a procession of weirdo looking halfwits creeping around pulling them off the fence for bragging rights at the pub.

If they wanted to do anything why wouldn't they put their own flowers up as a tribute to the guy who lived there? That would at least be witty.

 

[Mrs D]

we're witnessing a procession of weirdo looking halfwits creeping around pulling them off the fence for bragging rights at the pub.

If only some respectable looking people were to take the flowers off, then you’d be on their side?

The thing is Mr and Mrs average from number 64 won’t be taking them off because they’re scared of the repercussions.

 

[bemused]

If only some respectable looking people were to take the flowers off, then you’d be on their side?

I don't care if they pull them down or not, it's a circus.

 

[Mrs D]

I don't care if they pull them down or not, it's a circus.

Why are you labelling people “weirdo halfwit creeps” then? Do you know them personally or are you just going by the pics in the Daily Mail

 

[Smangus]

People are entitled to grieve, no matter how "scummy" they may appear to others putting up flowers etc is part of this process . Ripping down flowers etc only reduces people to their (perceived) level.


Still no sympathy for the perp though.

 

[Wilf]

People are entitled to grieve, no matter how "scummy" they may appear to others putting up flowers etc is part of this process . Ripping down flowers etc only reduces people to their (perceived) level.


Still no sympathy for the perp though.

That sounds about right.

 

[bemused]

Why are you labelling people “weirdo halfwit creeps” then? Do you know them personally or are you just going by the pics in the Daily Mail

100 urban points for mentioning the Daily Mail.

 

[gosub]

His answer was reasonable. The police said if you are going to or are breaching the peace they'll arrest you. The answer to the question 'if I pull the flowers down will I get arrested' can't be 'no'.

At this point, the guy isn't living there and we're witnessing a procession of weirdo looking halfwits creeping around pulling them off the fence for bragging rights at the pub.

If they wanted to do anything why wouldn't they put their own flowers up as a tribute to the guy who lived there? That would at least be witty.

If they wanted to do anything .....it would be to keep a discrete eye out once the old fella comes home. Pulling flowers off is just agrivating the situation

 

[Mrs D]

People are entitled to grieve, no matter how "scummy" they may appear to others putting up flowers etc is part of this process . Ripping down flowers etc only reduces people to their (perceived) level.

Someone should tell them about the concept of funerals and graves

 

[Wilf]

Someone should tell them about the concept of funerals and graves

Do you dish this advice out whenever you see a roadside tribute, say an RTA or the victim of a shooting?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Do you dish this advice out whenever you see a roadside tribute, say an RTA or the victim of a shooting?

Not comparable.

 

[Mrs D]

Do you dish this advice out whenever you see a roadside tribute, say an RTA or the victim of a shooting?

I was responding to the statement that “people are entitled to grieve” by pointing out some established channels for doing so should the modern trend for roadside flower arrangements prove controversial in this instance.

That the relatives keep restoring the removed items speaks volumes imo.

 

[Smangus]

I imagine the body hasn't been released yet for funerals and those established channals etc. I'm sure they can put their emotions on hold until then though

 

[cupid_stunt]

I imagine the body hasn't been released yet for funerals and those established channals etc. I'm sure they can put their emotions on hold until then though

You imagine wrong, the body was released 2 days ago.

 

[Mrs D]

I imagine the body hasn't been released yet for funerals and those established channals etc. I'm sure they can put their emotions on hold until then though

Why do it in the community of the victim rather than in their own places?

 

[Wilf]

I was responding to the statement that “people are entitled to grieve” by pointing out some established channels for doing so should the modern trend for roadside flower arrangements prove controversial in this instance.

That the relatives keep restoring the removed items speaks volumes imo.

'Speaks volumes', what does it speak of? And I'd guess they keep replacing them because they keep getting stamped upon. Fwiw, I've no interest in arresting the angry stampy people, but that's why the family keep coming back with more flowers.

 

[Wilf]

Why do it in the community of the victim rather than in their own places?

Because that's what people do? Because they are angry? Because they are upset?

And if we need it, I'll clarify again, the fact that they will be angry is a natural, simple reaction to loss - no me saying the pensioner did anything wrong. Quite the opposite, he and his wife are clear victims and have had a horrible ordeal. And yes, they will also be upset that flowers appearing across from/near their house. But that in itself doesn't mean the burglar's family won't have the normal, understandable reaction to a violent death.

 

[Smangus]

You imagine wrong, the body was released 2 days ago.

ah well that's me told then

 

[patman post]

Because that's what people do? Because they are angry? Because they are upset?

And if we need it, I'll clarify again, the fact that they will be angry is a natural, simple reaction to loss - no me saying the pensioner did anything wrong. Quite the opposite, he and his wife are clear victims and have had a horrible ordeal. And yes, they will also be upset that flowers appearing across from/near their house. But that in itself doesn't mean the burglar's family won't have the normal, understandable reaction to a violent death.

Seems his family and friends also have the perceived normal reaction of travellers to entering other people’s property...

 

[planetgeli]

Wilf Have to say your posts have resurrected this thread from the (not so) silent majority’s shitstorm of early on. I appreciate your points and the humour they’ve been made with. And it’s very telling that with nearly every post you make you have to qualify what you are saying with clarification that you are not supporting burglary or putting on a benefit concert for travellers ‘or the latest en vogue minority’ (which I thought was a particularly low point in this thread).

However, if I can make a break from my own “Sociology lecturers for burglars” stance...

But that in itself doesn't mean the burglar's family won't have the normal, understandable reaction to a violent death.

...I don’t agree that this is a normal, understandable reaction to a violent death. It appears to reek of intimidation and, in fact, a new low being dredged by the burglars family who seem prepared to use the death of one of their own for their own nefarious purposes. Which, if I’m right, is pretty low. And must confuse the hell out of Spymaster et al to see me saying it.

 

[MickiQ]

This is the actual legal definition of a modern breach of the peace.

‘wherever harm is actually done or is likely to be done to a person or in his presence his property, or a person is in fear of being so harmed, through an assault, an affray, a riot, unlawful assembly or other disturbance‘.

the Plod can take someone into custody and hold them until the peace is no longer threatened with breaching, the person can't be charged but can be held till all is quiet or dragged in front of the beak and ordered to behave (been there, done that, got the t-shirt, VERY LONG time ago but still) . If one of the angry foot stampy people, most of whom seem to be publicity seekers drawn to the area by the press like flies to a jam pot came up to one of the flower attachers and started harassing them whilst they were doing that then deffo breaching the peace, Standing patiently till the Vincent family have gone or turning up 2 hours later. Don't think it's gonna fly and as I mentioned earlier what if the owner of the fence (who is also 78 if the Fail is believed) decides to take them down, are they going to arrest him? where will they be when someone puts a brick through his window?
Like I said loads of sympathy for Plod here who are in a no win situation and just want the hoorah to calm down, lots of contempt for the press who seem to delight in stirring crap up.

 

[Mrs D]

Can we blame the misplaced flowers on Margaret Thatcher too? If good old non-neoliberal Ted Heath had carried on as PM until the 90s instead, no doubt everyone on that street would now be inviting everyone else in for comradely cups of tea.