Pensioner arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

[ddraig]

Looks like the cops thinks it'll be easier to threaten 'joe public' than 'Vincent's lot', the fuckwits.

ETA: As per moochedit's post above.

Problem is, they'll be taking on not just the taker-downs, but the views of the general public, the the likes of the Mail, etc.

with this logic we should bring back public hanging
you for that?

 

[cupid_stunt]

with this logic we should bring back public hanging
you for that?

WTF?

You are a serious fuckwit.

 

[RubyBlue]

I passed a newsstand and sighed when I saw the tabloids' GYPSY! angle.

The papers didn’t originally run with this it became apparent when the family themselves declared they where ‘Gypsies’ and therefore being victimised ~ forgetting that their son \ uncle \ brother etc victimised a much more vulnerable group.

 

[agricola]

You answered your own question, at the end of your post with the BIB.

Their behaviour is likely to result in a breach of peace, because it's causing serious unrest in the community.

No it isnt - for a start, what they are doing is leaving flowers and cards; it isn't like they are leaving banners calling for revenge or insulting the bloke / people on the street and leaving shrines to the dead has become a sadly commonplace thing nowadays whether people have been killed in RTAs, murders or whatever. You might make the point that this is some form of intimidation, but the bloke isn't there and the message that the intimidation is sending out ("we know where you live") is as I said rendered a bit moot by the fact that the papers have told everyone in the country and on the internet where the bloke lives.

Then you come to the biggest problem of all - that, if a breach of the peace does exist, its coming from the people reacting to it more than the people putting it up. This wouldn't be a problem so much if what was being put up was clearly provocative, but it isn't (at least as far as the published stuff has shown).

I am not saying the shrine should be there, but arguing that the cops should do everyone for breach of the peace - which isn't an offence anyway and which only allows the people involved to be arrested and put before a court anyway - is just wrong.

 

[moochedit]

The papers didn’t originally run with this it became apparent when the family themselves declared they where ‘Gypsies’ and therefore being victimised ~ forgetting that their son \ uncle \ brother etc victimised a much more vulnerable group.

At least one online supporter of the vincents (i don't know if it was a family member) made rascist comments about one of the taker downers.

Vigilante who tore down shrine to burglar reacts to racist abuse

 

[ddraig]

WTF?

You are a serious fuckwit.

if the views of the general public and the daily mail should be taken as some kind of guidance for applying laws then by that logic hanging should "be brought back" as that's what they'd want

why do you add a smiley after calling me a "serious fuckwit"??

 

[Spymaster]

if the views of the general public and the daily mail should be taken as some kind of guidance for applying laws then by that logic hanging should "be brought back" as that's what they'd want

Whaaaaaaaaat?

 

[B.I.G]

if the views of the general public and the daily mail should be taken as some kind of guidance for applying laws then by that logic hanging should "be brought back" as that's what they'd want

why do you add a smiley after calling me a "serious fuckwit"??

To demonstrate amusement

 

[cupid_stunt]

No it isnt - for a start, what they are doing is leaving flowers and cards; it isn't like they are leaving banners calling for revenge or insulting the bloke / people on the street and leaving shrines to the dead has become a sadly commonplace thing nowadays whether people have been killed in RTAs, murders or whatever. You might make the point that this is some form of intimidation, but the bloke isn't there and the message that the intimidation is sending out ("we know where you live") is as I said rendered a bit moot by the fact that the papers have told everyone in the country and on the internet where the bloke lives.

Then you come to the biggest problem of all - that, if a breach of the peace does exist, its coming from the people reacting to it more than the people putting it up. This wouldn't be a problem so much if what was being put up was clearly provocative, but it isn't (at least as far as the published stuff has shown).

I am not saying the shrine should be there, but arguing that the cops should do everyone for breach of the peace - which isn't an offence anyway and which only allows the people involved to be arrested and put before a court anyway - is just wrong.

The situation is at boiling point, the police have every right to arrest those putting up the flowers, because they are provoking the community to react.

In England and Wales, constables (or other persons) are permitted to arrest a person to "prevent a further breach of the peace" which allows for the police or the public to arrest a person before a breach of the peace has occurred. This is permitted when it is reasonable to believe should the person remain, that they would continue with their course of conduct and that a Breach of the Peace would occur.[8]

Pop them in a cell overnight, and up before the bench in morning, sorted.

 

[ddraig]

how are they breaching the peace by putting up flowers?

 

[cupid_stunt]

if the views of the general public and the daily mail should be taken as some kind of guidance for applying laws then by that logic hanging should "be brought back" as that's what they'd want

why do you add a smiley after calling me a "serious fuckwit"??

You made yourself look a right dickhead on this thread a couple of days ago, why are you going down the same rabbit hole again?

 

[Treacle Toes]

how are they breaching the peace by putting up flowers?

Two people burgle the home of your parents. One of them at least is armed and menaces your father...Your dad fights back and one of them dies a street away as he is fleeing. The family of the deceased decide to put flowers up opposite to your parent's home.

Your parents have to leave their home, are getting death threats and a media circus is unfolding outside their home primarily fueled by the family of the deceased choosing to situate their shrine opposite your parent's home, not where their relative died.

You okay with that? Am I some kind of death penalty hungry freak because I am not okay with that?

 

[ddraig]

You made yourself look a right dickhead on this thread a couple of days ago, why are you going down the same rabbit hole again?

did i now? did the poster think that? I do believe you saw and liked my apology so you can fuck off ( )

 

[B.I.G]

did i now? did the poster think that? I do believe you saw and liked my apology so you can fuck off ( )

 

[ddraig]

Two people burgle the home of your parents. One of them at least is armed and menaces your father...Your dad fights back and one of them dies a street away as he is fleeing. The family of the deceased decide to put flowers up opposite to your parents home.

Your parents have to leave their home, are getting death threats and a media circus is unfolding outside their home primarily fueled by the family of the deceased choosing to situate their shrine opposite your parents home, not where their relative died.

You okay with that? Am I some kind of death penalty hungry freak because I am not okay with that?

i'm not disputing any of that i'm simply taking issue with people appearing to insist that "overwhelming public opinion" on such an emotionally charged event should guide what should and shouldn't be done in law
imo we'd be in a right fucking state if those views had to be pandered to
that ok?

 

[cupid_stunt]

did i now? did the poster think that? I do believe you saw and liked my apology so you can fuck off ( )

You made a dick of yourself, you finally apologised for making a dick of yourself, I liked your apology.

You know what, I can't be arsed with you - congratulations for being the only poster moron on my ignore list.

 

[ddraig]

awww poor clapham boy

 

[agricola]

The situation is at boiling point, the police have every right to arrest those putting up the flowers, because they are provoking the community to react.

Is the community being provoked to react, though? All the people tearing the shrine down don't seem to be from the street or even the immediate neighbourhood, and increasingly it seems they are doing it to get in the papers.

Pop them in a cell overnight, and up before the bench in morning, sorted.

... and then you have to explain to a magistrate how leaving flowers and cards on a street is breaching the peace.

 

[Wilf]

Fwiw, I don't think from reading the 2 stories posted, the OB have threatened to arrest anybody, in fact they are desperate not to. It might come to that if one side or the other starts shoving/threatening/won't move off, but as of now it's the very last thing the met wants. If they or anybody sensible wanted a way out of it they'd be coming up with another nearby site to offer for the flowers, or failing that suggesting they could be put up for 24 hours and would then be removed.

 

[ddraig]

obviously agricola is putting it far better than me, what they said

 

[Treacle Toes]

i'm not disputing any of that i'm simply taking issue with people appearing to insist that "overwhelming public opinion" on such an emotionally charged event should guide what should and shouldn't be done in law
imo we'd be in a right fucking state if these views had to be pandered to
that ok?

I am not sure I understand you. Expecting the family of the deceased to at least not put that shrine up opposite of the house in which their relative illegally entered and attempted to rob/menace an old couple is pretty normal I think.

I have read differing public opinion.

I don't think hating nutjobs are being pandered to at all.

I think that most of us would look at this situation and think the family of the burglar aren't helping, and shouldn't be putting that shrine there. I am not saying he deserved to die of course. I am saying the people he violated should not have to suffer further but they are.

 

[Wilf]

No it isnt - for a start, what they are doing is leaving flowers and cards; it isn't like they are leaving banners calling for revenge or insulting the bloke / people on the street and leaving shrines to the dead has become a sadly commonplace thing nowadays whether people have been killed in RTAs, murders or whatever. You might make the point that this is some form of intimidation, but the bloke isn't there and the message that the intimidation is sending out ("we know where you live") is as I said rendered a bit moot by the fact that the papers have told everyone in the country and on the internet where the bloke lives.

Then you come to the biggest problem of all - that, if a breach of the peace does exist, its coming from the people reacting to it more than the people putting it up. This wouldn't be a problem so much if what was being put up was clearly provocative, but it isn't (at least as far as the published stuff has shown).

I am not saying the shrine should be there, but arguing that the cops should do everyone for breach of the peace - which isn't an offence anyway and which only allows the people involved to be arrested and put before a court anyway - is just wrong.

Yep, the way the flowers and messages has gone up has been pretty low key, from what I've seen entirely women sticking them up, not hanging around. No show of force, no big lads. In as much as having anything like this in the same place as the event, it's actually been quite diplomatic. And I say that having immense sympathy for the old bloke and his wife and a degree of contempt for the crimes the burglar and some of his family did.

On the other side, those ripping them down have been pretty wound up, literally, playing to the cameras. However, I've got sympathy for 2 of them in turn. If the reporting is right, one of them was similarly accused of killing a burglar and the other claims to have had his son sold drugs by the traveller family (or just travellers - a big difference). There's nothing good in all of this, but the real cunts here are the mail and various photographers lined up wanting both sides to 'perform' their roles on cue.

 

[moochedit]

Yep, the way the flowers and messages has gone up has been pretty low key, from what I've seen entirely women sticking them up, not hanging around. No show of force, no big lads. In as much as having anything like this in the same place as the event, it's actually been quite diplomatic. And I say that having immense sympathy for the old bloke and his wife and a degree of contempt for the crimes the burglar and some of his family did.

On the other side, those ripping them down have been pretty wound up, literally, playing to the cameras. However, I've got sympathy for 2 of them in turn. If the reporting is right, one of them was similarly accused of killing a burglar and the other claims to have had his son sold drugs by the traveller family (or just travellers - a big difference). There's nothing good in all of this, but the real cunts here are the mail and various photographers lined up wanting both sides to 'perform' their roles on cue.

From reports i have seen, the "cecil" who pulled down flowers used the name of a florist in manchester that killed a burgler but he is not the same person. Just used his name on the online video. He may be a relative of course.

 

[Wilf]

... and then you have to explain to a magistrate how leaving flowers and cards on a street is breaching the peace.

'Britain experienced a wave of arrests following the death of Princess Diana and the wanton attempts to lay flowers outside of Buckingham Palace...'

 

[Wilf]

From reports i have seen, the "cecil" who pulled down flowers used the name of a florist in manchester that killed a burgler but he is not the same person. Just used his name on the online video. He may be a relative of course.

Ah, I'm Spartacus!

 

[Wilf]

Actually, thinking about it, 'Terry Pratchett tribute act arrested for deflowering a fence' would be the best headline ever.

 

[ddraig]

Yep, the way the flowers and messages has gone up has been pretty low key, from what I've seen entirely women sticking them up, not hanging around. No show of force, no big lads. In as much as having anything like this in the same place as the event, it's actually been quite diplomatic. And I say that having immense sympathy for the old bloke and his wife and a degree of contempt for the crimes the burglar and some of his family did.

On the other side, those ripping them down have been pretty wound up, literally, playing to the cameras. However, I've got sympathy for 2 of them in turn. If the reporting is right, one of them was similarly accused of killing a burglar and the other claims to have had his son sold drugs by the traveller family (or just travellers - a big difference). There's nothing good in all of this, but the real cunts here are the mail and various photographers lined up wanting both sides to 'perform' their roles on cue.

this!!

 

[ddraig]

I am not sure I understand you. Expecting the family of the deceased to at least not put that shrine up opposite of the house in which their relative illegally entered and attempted to rob/menace an old couple is pretty normal I think.

I have read differing public opinion.

I don't think hating nutjobs are being pandered to at all.

I think that most of us would look at this situation and think the family of the burglar aren't helping, and shouldn't be putting that shrine there. I am not saying he deserved to die of course. I am saying the people he violated should not have to suffer further but they are.

I agree with most of this
basically what Wilf said and i'd add surely letting the family have a tribute for a bit keeps the peace and stops the vigilantes virtue signalling with their outrage and making a show of ripping down flowers

just imagine if this was the other way round, there'd be a moral panic

 

[Spymaster]

I agree with most of this
basically what Wilf said and i'd add surely letting the family have a tribute for a bit keeps the peace and stops the vigilantes virtue signalling with their outrage and making a show of ripping down flowers

just imagine if this was the other way round, there'd be a moral panic

Why aren't the flowers being laid at the scene of the twat's death two streets away? That's what usually happens. It's intimidation. It's not a question of "we know where you live", it's one of "we've been outside your home" and "we've got an eye on you".

 

[Treacle Toes]

I agree with most of this
basically what Wilf said and i'd add surely letting the family have a tribute for a bit keeps the peace and stops the vigilantes virtue signalling with their outrage and making a show of ripping down flowers

just imagine if this was the other way round, there'd be a moral panic

Hmm...the problem is where the shrine is. The police could have stopped this shrine being put where it is. Police choose to hold lines and allow access to specific places all the time. They have failed here IMO by letting the family locate it there. It is a provocation IMO. I am not sure the people who are outraged are vigilante virtue signallers tbh. Though yeah, those people allowing the media circus to make them circus animals is proper sad.