Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher
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meant eh?
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Course it's a far right gathering. It is a problem the UK left seems to have, where identity trumps everything. Ask an Iraqi or Turkish communist what that demo is and they'd most likely guess it's fascists.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Nope. You can be the most perfectly behaved human being on the face of the planet, but you would still have a sinful nature.
8ball
1,200 lights
Yeah, but *everyone* (in Christianity, at least) has a sinful nature.
And in Islam, to my understanding, *all* sin is down to what you *do*.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Exactly, that's the problem.
8ball
1,200 lights
You might want to read the edit to my post above and also bear in mind that we're not talking about Christians in this thread.
But the "are vs. do" thing would not make sense for either group if they were protesting in a similar manner.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Hmmm. I've not seen the content of his classes, but I'll wager he isn't going around telling kids to be gay. He's simply spreading a message that it's ok to be gay, and perhaps using himself as an example. So I'd dispute that really, especially when they are turning up with banners saying 'my child my choice' and 'no Islamophobia'. Presumably the logic behind the latter is that 'Islam says homosexuality is wrong; this teacher is teaching that homosexuality is ok; therefore this teacher is teaching kids that Islam is wrong'. So what, they don't have a problem with him being gay, except that he's a pervert and against God.
As others have said, it is perhaps ok for them if he's gay but only if he keeps his perversion to himself. Very big of them, I'm sure. If he's out and proud, they have a problem.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Genesis is part of the Muslim creation story and Man's actions due to his nature got him kicked out of the Garden of Eden, no?
andysays
Love and solidarity
I've read the original story and the original thread, so I have a pretty good idea about the content of the programme which appears to be the source of the problem.
There seem to be some pretty significant assumptions being made on this thread, based mostly on the fact that many/most of the parents are Muslim.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Meh. I doubt you'd be taking that line if this was someone like Mary Whitehouse with a bunch of Christians outside the door. At least some are accusing this teacher of Islamophobia. Why might that be, do you think?
8ball
1,200 lights
Not really, a version with some pretty important differences is, though...
No, his choices got him and Hawwa (Eve) exiled from Eden, and his sins were not transmitted to his children.
andysays
Love and solidarity
But it isn't Mary Whitehouse, so not sure why you've chosen to bring her into it.
Anyway, thread can carry on quite happily without me, I'm sure
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I mean to me it is a far right group outside a school.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Pretty sure that's also Putin's line on similar issues. Do we believe him too?
8ball
1,200 lights
I'm not sure how well a right/left model fits in this case.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
It doesn't really fit anything in the real world but moaning about the gays corrupting our youth is a traditionally right-wing trope.
8ball
1,200 lights
Yeah (generally), but that doesn't make them a far right group.
Here’s the teacher’s twitter feed: Andrew Moffat (@moffat_andrew) on Twitter
I think most parents, including most Muslim parents, at the school have backed him though this doesn’t really come across from the media coverage.
I think most parents, including most Muslim parents, at the school have backed him though this doesn’t really come across from the media coverage.
The reporting of this hasn’t been great but I expect Islamists will have been involved in organising the protests and what are they if not religious right?
8ball
1,200 lights
No, it certainly doesn't.
There is also a willing conflation of the proportion of Muslim families in the area vs. the proportion of families opposing this teaching.
It's hard to get a good idea of the balance of things from this kind of coverage, but one thing I like to consider when pondering how broad-based and "organic" a protest is: "are most/all of the banners in the same font / handwriting?".
8ball
1,200 lights
Well, if you take a sub-section of a sub-section and then apply it to one thing that some people are doing, you could argue that, but it feels like a bit of a stretch.
8ball
1,200 lights
I don't know whether they are primarily organised by Islamists - that was your contention.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
It does however make them twats.
Fair enough. I’m not certain about this and my assumptions may be wrong. One of the problems I have with the media coverage is a lack of questioning about how the campaign came to be organised and what people’s agendas are.
8ball
1,200 lights
Yeah, it's pretty patchy and "tropey" tbf. And with no detail about particular specific objections, which implies that there aren't any to some, and could imply that there is an "Advanced Fisting" module in year 3 to others.
There is a little bit of context in an older article here, but it doesn't directly clear up what we have been discussing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Extremist nutjobs, Christian Voice, in the opinion of most Christians let alone anyone else.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
There was a tie in between Christian Voice (or whatever it was called at the time..) and some local 'community leaders' when I lived in Brum (as a filthy, idle student) in the mid-90's.
Same suit, different cuff-links.
This report gives some figures.
770 pupils, 98 per cent Muslim, 400 parents have signed a petition. So that’s maybe approaching a third of the Muslim parents.
School defends LGBT lessons after religious parents complain
770 pupils, 98 per cent Muslim, 400 parents have signed a petition. So that’s maybe approaching a third of the Muslim parents.
School defends LGBT lessons after religious parents complain
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