P&O Ferries sacks workers and docks ships

[contadino]

Fire/rehire was legal in the UK pre-Brexit. So, go on...we're all ears here.

Fire & hire is not what they're doing.

 

[Sue]

Before Brexit the UK had equivalent employment laws as the rest of the EU. After Brexit it is deregulation & those protections no longer apply.

I've worked in both France and the UK when we were still in the EU. My employment rights (and the public/political acceptability of how workers were treated) were way, way better in France.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Before Brexit the UK had equivalent employment laws as the rest of the EU. After Brexit it is deregulation & those protections no longer apply.

What law are you referring to? When was it ‘deregulated’? How would it have prevented what P&O have done?

 

[MrSki]

What law are you referring to? When was it ‘deregulated’? How would it have prevented what P&O have done?

They have fucked over the workers in the UK where they can but not in France where they can't.

 

[The39thStep]

Before Brexit the UK had equivalent employment laws as the rest of the EU. After Brexit it is deregulation & those protections no longer apply.

Can you point us to the withdrawal agreement section that says this or say an appropriate quote from ACAS?

 

[The39thStep]

What?

Pragmatic liberalism in action

 

[A380]

Aggravated trespass is a criminal offence, and a very vague and easily-abused one at that. But there'll be no trials and probably no charges either; once the workers are off the ships it doesn't matter what pretext was used to remove them.

As for police siding with workers against scab security, that has literally never happened.

Good luck getting that one past the CPS let alone in court.

And it 'literally' has, albeit nowhere near as often as it should have done.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

They have fucked over the workers in the UK where they can but not in France where they can't.

What equivalent laws existed in Britain before Brexit? When were these laws ‘deregulated’? How would it have prevented what P&O have done? What EU law are you referring to specifically?

 

[Sue]

They have fucked over the workers in the UK where they can but not in France where they can't.

Of course. But employers did this way before Brexit.

 

[A380]

I wonder if you were a long experienced engineering officer or hand how easy it would be to scuttle one of those big Ro-Ro ships. Any naval architects on here who knows if modern commercial ships have sea cocks?

Now that probably would be something you could get nicked for, but the pictures on world wide TV might be worth it...

 

[The39thStep]

Brexit and P&O workers fault

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Fire & hire is not what they're doing.

Ok, so they are firing and hiring, but fire and hire is not what they are doing. What are they doing then?

 

[Duncan2]

Good luck getting that one past the CPS let alone in court.

And it 'literally' has, albeit nowhere near as often as it should have done.

if these workers are covered by UK employment law I cannot see how the whole lot of them have not been unfairly dismissed?Quite apart from the failure to consult there is no redundancy situation,the company seem to have admitted as much,and there is therefore no fair reason for dismissal?Or am I wrong.One of the potential remedies for Unfair Dismissal is reinstatement I know that never happens but this looks like the sort of case where it should happen?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

if these workers are covered by UK employment law I cannot see how the whole lot of them have not been unfairly dismissed?Quite apart from the failure to consult there is no redundancy situation,the company seem to have admitted as much,and there is therefore no fair reason for dismissal?Or am I wrong.One of the potential remedies for Unfair Dismissal is reinstatement I know that never happens but this looks like the sort of case where it should happen?

Broadly agree. But a) as I’ve said up thread they are seeking to convert these into voluntary redundancies via the enhanced redundancy package and b) ETs can order reinstatement but the employer is not required to comply and all an ET can do is increase the compensation package by 25% in those circumstances.

The failure to consult is clearly unlawful though

 

[marty21]

I thought you couldn't be made redundant if someone else is hired to replace you.

Seems like they've just squared that circle by simply sacking everyone instead. Which you'd think there'd be laws against but apparently not.

Changing the job title slightly or the responsibilities gets around that.

 

[marty21]

There won't be any nationalising. DP World also own Thames Gateway and Southampton docks. Pissing off dock owners when there are already empty shelves in supermarkets would be a step too far even for this government.

They discovered the magic money tree & have been throwing money around with wild abandon due to Brexit/covid . And they want to keep some red wall votes, they would find a way , they could find a way, but probably won't. Disaster in the upcoming local elections may prompt them though.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Changing the job title slightly or the responsibilities gets around that.

Not changing the job description one jot but taking on agency staff to do the redundant jobs is allowed, under U.K. law approved by the EU.

 

[marty21]

They have fucked over the workers in the UK where they can but not in France where they can't.

British employers were pulling this sort of shit before Brexit .

 

[MrSki]

British employers were pulling this sort of shit before Brexit .

With 800 jobs at stake the employer had to give at least one months notice of intent & enter into pointless negotiations with any unions representing those jobs to be made redundant.

 

[contadino]

Ok, so they are firing and hiring, but fire and hire is not what they are doing. What are they doing then?

Outsourcing. They're not hiring - their supplier is providing staff.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Outsourcing. They're not hiring - their supplier is providing staff.

Fucking mug

The initial reports were staff were sacked and told agency staff would replace them and they should apply to those agencies. Fire/rehire outsourced.

 

[contadino]

With 800 jobs at stake the employer had to give at least one months notice of intent & enter into pointless negotiations with any unions representing those jobs to be made redundant.

I think the rule is based on being over a certain percentage of staff at a particular location. I.e over 10% of staff employed at Dover requires a consultation.

Not disagreeing with what you wrote, just clarifying what I was advised once.

 

[marty21]

With 800 jobs at stake the employer had to give at least one months notice of intent & enter into pointless negotiations with any unions representing those jobs to be made redundant.

In an ideal world, maybe , but they will wiggle out of such things.

 

[MrSki]

I think the rule is based on being over a certain percentage of staff at a particular location. I.e over 10% of staff employed at Dover requires a consultation.

Not disagreeing with what you wrote, just clarifying what I was advised once.

I thought you had to give the Sec. of State 45 days notice if planning on making more than 100.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I think the rule is based on being over a certain percentage of staff at a particular location. I.e over 10% of staff employed at Dover requires a consultation.

Not disagreeing with what you wrote, just clarifying what I was advised once.

No it fucking isn’t, it’s about people you employ, not how many other divs happen to be there.

 

[contadino]

Fucking mug

You contradict yourself and I'm a mug?

 

[contadino]

No it fucking isn’t, it’s about people you employ, not how many other divs happen to be there.

Did you pick that titbit up at charm school?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You contradict yourself and I'm a mug?

No and yes.

Did you pick that titbit up at charm school?

You goat-fucking prick.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I thought you had to give the Sec. of State 45 days notice if planning on making more than 100.

I’m still waiting for you to brief us on the equivalent laws that existed in Britain as in France before Brexit? When were these laws ‘deregulated’? How would it have prevented what P&O have done? What EU law are you referring to specifically?

 

[contadino]

You goat-fucking prick.

I think you have me muddled up with someone else. I'm allergic to goats.