Orwell and Wigan Pier

[petee]

someone here posted or linked to a critique of this voiced by workers in wigan, but i can't for the life of me locate it.
can anyone post it again?
thanks!

 

[seventh bullet]

Not Wigan, but his prole safari for middle class titilation is mentioned in The Intellectual Life of the British Working Classes by Jonathan Rose, going into his interactions with labour activists and trade unionists in Liverpool struggling with poverty and mass unemployment, including radical merchant sailor and docker George Garrett.

 

[ska invita]

Bumping as most recent Orwell thread
I enjoyed watching this last night - a useful overview of his list in chronological order
a BBC production
no audio or video of Orwell exists so this is a dramatised documentary based on his writing, quite well done all things considered


also rebecca solnit has been talking about her book Orwells Roses


she is surprised by his gentile side.... mmmm....i dont see whats so surprising tbh

 

[hitmouse]

Bumping as most recent Orwell thread

also rebecca solnit has been talking about her book Orwells Roses

she is surprised by his gentile side.... mmmm....i dont see whats so surprising tbh

What, had she just assumed he was Jewish?

Other Orwell stuff that may or may not be of interest to anyone:
While he was inside, Barrett Brown wrote a (very funny imo) column about reading George Orwell's collected correspondence:

The Barrett Brown Review of Arts and Letters and Jail: Mutilated Animal Farm

Surely you recall your Orwell, yes?

www.dmagazine.com

One of these, covering the bulk of 1947 and 1948, includes Orwell’s “domestic diary” in which he records his experiences at a small Scottish farm he’d purchased of late and where he spent a good portion of this period, his time split between doing chores and composing the draft of Nineteen Eighty-Four. One might expect this to make for some pretty dull reading, but one would be wrong.

One would be dead wrong...

Indeed, there are few places in the world where it is worse to be an animal than on George Orwell’s nightmare farm:

“Cow bogged last night. When dragged out, she was too weak to stand, and had to be given gruel.”

Incidentally I have no idea what it means to be “bogged,” although I gather that it is something terrible that happens to you in Scotland and which can only be cured by having George Orwell feed you gruel, no doubt laced with DDT. Things are even worse for the sheep:

“They are lambing in such a state of weakness that they have no milk, sometimes actually refuse to take their lambs and even now that the grass is coming on, some of them are too weak to graze.” Allow me to just cut in here and ensure that we’re all clear on the fact that THE SHEEP ARE TOO WEAK TO LOWER THEIR HEADS AND EAT GRASS. And that’s not even the kicker: “[The neighbors] say the gulls and hoodies attack weak sheep and yesterday took the eye out of one of them.” Well, why not? This is Scotland, after all.

But Orwell remains unaware that anything is amiss, perhaps because he himself has now succumbed to the evil spirits that roam the Scottish countryside:

“While digging the ploughed patch, dug up nest of three young rabbits — about ten days old, I should say. One appeared to be dead already, the other two I killed.”

Orwell’s rabbit purge goes on for days. He proves to be altogether chaffinch-like in the extent of his rapacity, indeed of his contempt for life itself:

“Last night shot a very young rabbit in the garden. Threw the corpse into the trench.”

Nor is his revolutionary justice meted out only to the petit bourgeois rabbits:

“Killed a mouse in the larder. [Orwell’s sister Avril] came out to tell me there was one there behaving in a very bold way. Went in and found it eating something on the floor and paying no attention to either of us.” And so Orwell and his no doubt evil sister find the reactionary mouse guilty of undue boldness — a very serious thought-crime, mind you — and, satisfied with the results of their hastily arranged show trial, this so-called anti-Stalinist pronounces the sentence, to which there can be no appeal. “Hit it with a barrel stave and killed it.”

Of course, the wildlife manages to give as good as it gets here in the Dark Realm of Scotland:

“I hear that recently two children at [a neighboring village] were bitten by rats (in the face, as usual).”

At least these sorts of incidents are not so common as to go unremarked upon. I suppose a child in Scotland can go weeks and weeks without getting his face eaten off by rats.

Also Kristian Williams has a recent(ish, 2017) book of essays on Orwell that looks good:

Between the Bullet and the Lie

Not a study of sacred decrees from Orwell, but an application of his thought to political and literary questions that trouble us today.

www.akpress.org

 

[josef1878 2.0]

To be fair to him he did live on Darlington Street in Wigan while writing The Road to Wigan Pier. It's a shithole now and must have been much more grim then.

 

[Peter Painter]

The Road to Wigan Pier is one of my favourite Orwell books. I like the fact that he approaches it as a middle-class journalist and is more honest about himself than he is in Down and Out in Paris and London (where he gives the impression that he is really living as a tramp/vagrant but in reality has places, including an Aunt's house in Paris, that he could retreat to if things got too desperate for him).

I also like the way he splits the book into two parts; the first being journalistic reportage on the conditions of the working class in Wigan and the north, the second, a vicious attack (pulling no punches) upon the bourgeois socialists of the time.

This is one of my favourite quotes, where he makes a valid point whilst simultaneously displaying some of his own prejudices. It always makes me laugh:

"The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism, in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle classes. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible —- the really disquieting —- prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature-Cure' quack, pacifist and feminist in England."

 

[Pickman's model]

no audio or video of Orwell exists

except the bit here round the 50 second mark The Only Known Footage of George Orwell (Circa 1921)

 

[Serge Forward]

"The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism, in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle classes. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible —- the really disquieting —- prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature-Cure' quack, pacifist and feminist in England."

Hmm... some of that could easily apply to the contemporary British anarchist scene

 

[hitmouse]

Hmm... some of that could easily apply to the contemporary British anarchist scene

Yeah, whatever flaws that section has, it is at least a useful rejoinder to nostalgic types who think things were better in the good old days.

 

[salem]

The Road to Wigan Pier is one of my favourite Orwell books. I like the fact that he approaches it as a middle-class journalist and is more honest about himself than he is in Down and Out in Paris and London (where he gives the impression that he is really living as a tramp/vagrant but in reality has places, including an Aunt's house in Paris, that he could retreat to if things got too desperate for him).

I also like the way he splits the book into two parts; the first being journalistic reportage on the conditions of the working class in Wigan and the north, the second, a vicious attack (pulling no punches) upon the bourgeois socialists of the time.

This is one of my favourite quotes, where he makes a valid point whilst simultaneously displaying some of his own prejudices. It always makes me laugh:

"The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism, in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle classes. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaller and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over en bloc from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible —- the really disquieting —- prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and 'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature-Cure' quack, pacifist and feminist in England."

As a piece of writing I really enjoyed Down and Out in Paris and London when I read it a few years ago as I've enjoyed most of Orwell's stuff I've read.

I'm currently reading the Road to Wigan Pier and I find it an interesting record of the period while being depressingly relevant today - there are a lot of observations that could be made today. However I'm finding it a real chore to read, it's just so miserable.

 

[ska invita]

I'm currently reading the Road to Wigan Pier and I find it an interesting record of the period while being depressingly relevant today - there are a lot of observations that could be made today. However I'm finding it a real chore to read, it's just so miserable.

There have been two Wigan revisits
first this in the 80s

Wigan Pier Revisited

A brilliant exposé of poverty and politics in Britain. In 1937 George Orwell published The Road to Wigan Pier, an account of his famous 'urban ride' amo...

www.virago.co.uk

then this 2011

The Road to Wigan Pier Revisited by Stephen Armstrong – review

A forceful, if flawed, study in the footsteps of George Orwell. By Stuart Maconie

www.theguardian.com

 

[salem]

Brilliant ska invita I'll check them out

 

[Serge Forward]

With some similarities to Orwell's Wigan Pier (and a possible inspiration to Orwell), I read JB Priestly's English Journey a few years ago. It was also quite interesting (till he started gobbing off about "the Irish", which put me right off him). I was inspired to read it after that Lemn Sissay did a really interesting radio documentary (and revisit of JBP's journey)..

 

[Peter Painter]

With some similarities to Orwell's Wigan Pier (and a possible inspiration to Orwell), I read JB Priestly's English Journey a few years ago. It was also quite interesting (till he started gobbing off about "the Irish", which put me right off him). I was inspired to read it after that Lemn Sissay did a really interesting radio documentary (and revisit of JBP's journey)..

Yes, I read that too some years ago and thought pretty much the same.

In a similar vein, Jack London's People of the Abyss can be read in conjunction with Down and Out. It may well have provided Orwell with some inspiration.

Another is Yevgeny Zamaytin's, We, which I am convinced must have provided some inspiration for 1984.

 

[Serge Forward]

We did influence 1984 - I think Orwell said as much.

Anyone read Rural Rides by William Cobbett? I reckon it influenced the Condition of the English Working Class, People of the Abyss, English Journey, Road to Wigan Pier, and everything else

 

[Peter Painter]

As a piece of writing I really enjoyed Down and Out in Paris and London when I read it a few years ago as I've enjoyed most of Orwell's stuff I've read.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I also thoroughly enjoyed Down and Out, and have read it several times. I just think he is a little more honest in Wigan Pier, that's all.

I love the bit in Down and Out where he bemoans the injustice of the poverty trap and describes how he is sat in a hovel of a room using his last bit of gas to boil up his last bit of milk. Then a bug falls into his milk and he explains how this is just the kind of injustice the poor face as the milk is ruined and he must now go without. It is quite simply a brilliant example of middle-class misunderstanding as quite obviously anybody really in that situation would have just removed the offending bug. Or even just swallowed it down with the milk as an extra bit of protein!

His essay, 'In the clink', is also good to read in conjunction with Down and Out as an example of him going undercover for investigative reporting...

 

[Peter Painter]

We did influence 1984 - I think Orwell said as much.

Anyone read Rural Rides by William Cobbett? I reckon it influenced the Condition of the English Working Class, People of the Abyss, English Journey, Road to Wigan Pier, and everything else

Yes, I have. I loved it. And reckon you're right about it!

I didn't know Orwell mentioned We (or at least don't remember him doing so). I only discovered it a few years back and whilst reading it i kept thinking that Orwell must have read it and taken inspiration from it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, I have. I loved it. And reckon you're right about it!

I didn't realise or remember Orwell mentioning We. I only discovered it a few years back and whilst reading it i kept thinking that Orwell must have read it and "taken inspiration from it."

yeh plagiarised it What George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four owes Yevgeny Zamyatin's We

 

[JimW]

Anyone read Rural Rides by William Cobbett?

I have! Brought my grandad's two volume Everyman Library edition with me to China when I first came to work in rural development, was interesting comparing peasant life then and now here and there.

 

[Peter Painter]

yeh plagiarised it What George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four owes Yevgeny Zamyatin's We

Wow! Thanks for that. Particularly interesting is the embedded Tribune article. Quite ironic that Orwell compares it to Brave New World as that is the text that 1984 is so often compared with.

I'm just wondering now how I managed to miss it for so long?!

 

[hitmouse]

Wow! Thanks for that. Particularly interesting is the embedded Tribune article. Quite ironic that Orwell compares it to Brave New World as that is the text that 1984 is so often compared with.

I'm just wondering now how I managed to miss it for so long?!

By the way, if anyone's in the mood for more early-20th century dystopias, I read The Machine Stops by EM Forster recently and was amazed it's not better-known: The Machine Stops: Will Gompertz reviews EM Forster's work ★★★★★