Olympic Track & Field - aka Athletics thread

[Treacle Toes]

Its coz I loves da monkees! W00t!

Want one of my narnas?

 

[Treacle Toes]

All over the media when a very prominent Irish swimmer (who never tested positive!) was winning medals. All over cycling forums whenever Americans posted. All over these forums when this proven doping violator won. To give just three examples. You name the sport, if someone is succesful enough, quite a lot of people from their own country will defend them no matter what the evidence is.

Of course when I say "defend them", I don't mean putting forward reasonable arguments on their behalf. By and large it quickly degenerates into shouting killjoy at anyone concerned with the truth, sneering, insulting, and sticking your fingers in your ears. The tragic thing is that the "patriotic" Brits who just want to cheer on success, and screw the dodgy circumstances, are actually undermining one of the policies that the British team has that is worth supporting. It's far more impressive to me that the British team has a policy of slinging out doping violators that it would be for any number of drug cheats to win in British colours.

Ah so it's blind nationalism that gets your goat?

 

[mentalchik]

Heard Steve Backley talking about Christine Ohuruogo on the radio today....


He likened what happened to her like this.

Imagine that the government decided to make it a prison sentance for anyone driving over 30 miles an hour but didn't really tell anyone properly just disseminated it amongst certain people so the infomation was vague at best. You then are the first person to get caught and they decide to make an example of you. She hasn't tested positive at any time either just before the missed tests or after !

Whatever the truth of it is.....well done to her on her win !

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Ah so it's blind nationalism that gets your goat?

Blind nationalism and willful stupidity both. Anyone who can look at athletics, see a proven doping violator put in a great performance to win a medal, and still come away thinking "I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, now stop moaning you bunch of killjoys", is in my view at the very best extremely naive.

 

[Jessiedog]

The people cheering on Ohuruogo are undermining that policy, by showing clearly that for them success matters more than competing clean.

Indeed.

The olympic movement, in its entirety, is discredited.

The freedom to protest in China - just for the duration of the games - as promised by China in order to secure the games - they wouldn't have without this "guarantee"?

We graciously set up "protest zones" in 3 public parks, fifteen kilometres from the stadium and then invited applications.

Of the Only 77 (according to the Beijing authorities,) received so far, how many have been approved?

Fucking none!

Overseas guests have been deported. Many Chinese who applied to protest were simply detained and will not be released until after the games (at best - they may never be seen again.

And the parks are empty apart from the early morning Tai Chi pensioners.\



The olympic movement is dead!

Long live Capitalism at its worst!





Woof

 

[London_Calling]

This kind of comment is all too common from people who don't understand how drug testing works. The tests, particularly in-competition tests, only catch the stupid, the unlucky or the desperate. That's because many drugs are undetectable and even most of the detectable ones (particularly various forms steroids) are taken mostly during out of competition periods, when testing is less frequent.

This particular athlete was not banned for missing a test. She was banned for missing three out of competition tests, which is considered firm enough evidence of doping by pretty much every sport to land you a ban. Get that? Not one test. Not two tests. Three of them. She is a drug cheat, just as much as someone caught with anabolic steroids in their piss, or someone who never tests positive but who gets done for tampering with a sample.

Far from thinking, as some idiot above suggests, that there is something wrong with winning a medal for Britain, I actually think that Britain is one of the few countries which operates a correct policy of banning anyone done for a doping offence from competing at the Olympics. Ohuruogo used the Court of Arbitration to circumvent that ban. She shouldn't be there, and people cheering her on just because she is British are undermining their own team's anti-doping policy.

As for the testing procedures being "ridiculous", no, they are not. Everyone else on the British team managed to avoid missing three tests, as did thousands of other Olympic athletes. As I explained above, out of competition tests are the most important element of the testing regime. The ones in competition are mostly for show. Cheats miss out of competition tests because they don't want to be tested while detectable substances are still in their body. It's a perfectly rational thing to do if the test is likely to catch you. The first couple of times you don't even get a ban. Even a third time the competition ban is shorter than it is for a positive test.

Innocent until proven guilty? I hate to break it to some of you, but she has in fact been proven guilty.

I pretty much agree with the above.

What I do feel uncomfortable with is people who emotionally invest a little too much outside of their lives, this time on a wave of misplaced patriotism, to the detriment of their better judgement, or any judgement - for a comparison, consider the ridicule and disbelief that accompanied Rio Ferdinand's single missed test. Single being the operative word.

Notwithstanding the old guff about her excuses, she went missing on three occasions. That’s a very loud alarm bell for me.

 

[TrippyLondoner]

There's no way she can really be proven guilty though right now, so there is no real argument to base this on.

 

[Jessiedog]

Has he been tested since his win??????

That's hardly relevant.



Woof

 

[Nigel Irritable]

There's no way she can really be proven guilty though right now, so there is no real argument to base this on.

She has already been proven guilty of a major doping violation. So no, there isn't anything to argue about.

 

[Melinda]

Indeed.
<snip




Woof

Is there any point in asking you again, nicely, to take this onto another thread? This is about Track and Field.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Is there any point in asking you again, nicely, to take this onto another thread? This is about Track and Field.

And we are discussing the use of performance enhancing drugs by track and field athletes, in track and field events, with a particular focus on one of todays track and field results.

Perhaps you should start a new thread called something like "Track and Field: Blindly positive discussion amongst the naive, the one-eyed, the credulous and the foolish". I promise you that I won't post in it.

 

[Melinda]

Blind nationalism and willful stupidity both. Anyone who can look at athletics, see a proven doping violator put in a great performance to win a medal, and still come away thinking "I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, now stop moaning you bunch of killjoys", is in my view at the very best extremely naive.

You've said what you want to say, many times now. Thank you for the illumination but you're wrecking this thread. There are other threads about doping.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

You've said what you want to say, many times now. Thank you for the illumination but you're wrecking this thread. There are other threads about doping.

Here you go:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7925131#post7925131

 

[Melinda]

Here you go:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7925131#post7925131

You really are quite tiresome.

 

[Jessiedog]

Whatever the truth of it is.....well done to her on her win !

And that's the attitude that Nigel is, I feel rightly, criticising.

You seem to be saying that you are happy that the olympics is essentially a competition between chemists, in which case, it seems that you are cheering the wrong person for the win - the boffins should be on the podium.




Woof

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I'm going to continue enjoying it until she's been officially been found guilty for this final she won, until then, its ALL just speculation. People are confusing their beliefs with facts.

 

[Jessiedog]

This is about Track and Field.

No.


This is about drug cheats and money.

And repression and totalitarianism.


It's fucking sick!





Woof

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I've decided jessidog/nigel are nothing more than tiresome trolls trying to wreck what was a perfectly good thread. *adds them to ignore*

Ahhh thats a relief i tells ya.

 

[Melinda]

No.


This is about drug cheats and money.

And repression and totalitarianism.


It's fucking sick!





Woof

Sick! Sick I tells ya! SICK!! SICK!!! SICK!!!!!

 

[London_Calling]

I'm going to continue enjoying it until she's been officially been found guilty for this final she won, until then, its ALL just speculation. People are confusing their beliefs with facts.

You really don't want to undertand do you; she was guilty.

While all her fellow competitors were being tested, she went missing - and she was banned.

 

[Jessiedog]

Perhaps you should start a new thread called something like "Track and Field: Blindly positive discussion amongst the naive, the one-eyed, the credulous and the foolish". I promise you that I won't post in it.

Me too.

I promise I won't post there.

But if I do, it's nothing to do with me - someone must have hacked into my system.


I have NO idea how it got into my system!



Why won't you just trust me and believe me?


I'm rich anyway don't you know?

*sobs into camera*




Woof

 

[felixthecat]

I'm going to continue enjoying it until she's been officially been found guilty for this final she won, until then, its ALL just speculation. People are confusing their beliefs with facts.

well yes.

The facts are she has never tested positive on a dope test, BUT she IS guilty of a doping violation under the IAAF rules by missing 3 tests. I'm sorry, but she's not naiive enough to think that it doesn't matter if she misses tests - she's been around athletics long enough.

 

[Melinda]

You really don't want to undertand do you; she was guilty.

While all her fellow competitors were being tested, she went missing - and she was banned.

UKA, WADA and BOA all cleared her to be in the Olympics. Game over.

 

[TrippyLondoner]

You really don't want to undertand do you; she was guilty.

While all her fellow competitors were being tested, she went missing - and she was banned.

Has she been found guilty, THIS time? And also, see what melinda said.

 

[mentalchik]

And that's the attitude that Nigel is, I feel rightly, criticising.

You seem to be saying that you are happy that the olympics is essentially a competition between chemists, in which case, it seems that you are cheering the wrong person for the win - the boffins should be on the podium.




Woof

Well you could say that about all of them then.........there's no way of knowing for sure at all times is there ?

I remember when the iron curtain came down and all the controversy about some of the former soviet and eastern block athletes...

this is nothing new !

I'm assuming the governing body was happy for her to compete....they sorted out the Dwayne Chambers affair against a lot of opinion that wanted him at the olympics.

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I'm assuming the governing body was happy for her to compete....they sorted out the Dwayne Chambers affair against a lot of opinion that wanted him at the olympics.

Exactly, that's why i have some faith in this.

 

[Jessiedog]

Sick! Sick I tells ya! SICK!! SICK!!! SICK!!!!!

You don't think it's sick.

I understand that.


*shrugs*



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

UKA, WADA and BOA all cleared her to be in the Olympics. Game over.

Finally you understand the whole point about the olympics!

Hallejulah!





Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Apologies.

Double post.

I have no idea how that got into my system.

Please don't ban me.

*sobs into microphone*





Woof

 

[TrippyLondoner]

This discussion clearly isn't going anywhere, lets just agree to disagree rather than wrecking what was a good thread. I ain't changing my view.