I know that's your opinion, and you've made your case eloquently. But it remains to be seen whether these are, or will become, genuine popular revolutions. I don't think they are or will, but we'll see.
North Africa and the middle east: just the US Government re-arranging their puppets?
- Thread starter Louis MacNeice
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I know that's your opinion, and you've made your case eloquently. But it remains to be seen whether these are, or will become, genuine popular revolutions. I don't think they are or will, but we'll see.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Well, yes and no. Africa has already (20 years ago, actually) experienced a wave of mass protests against one-party regimes that did lead to "democratization" of varying degrees of credibility.
And the surviving dictators in Africa may well be much more dug in than their colleagues in the Arab dictators' club. Eritrean websites I've seen express longing for a comparable revolt in that country: but the youth are still prisoners of the army (conscription is almost total) and have been kept out of areas where they might become an inflammable mass.
(Btw I certainly don't agree with anything that says the Arab revolts are fake colour revolutions.)
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I would imagine that, as with any entity as big as the US, some bits of it's controller class are concerned about the events in NA & beyond, while others see it as an opportunity - chaos & change always bring change that can be exploited. I agree with dylans about any conspiracy being at best a long, outside shot - one that reinforces a narrative of US power, while denigrating the achievements of the Tunisians, Egpytians etc - but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that there were agents provocateurs present from all interested parties, atttempting to nudge things along in one direction or other - possibly even contradictory goals from those hailing from the same nations or interest groups.
He's unpredictable though. Not the sort of guy they want sitting on top of their oil.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I have no doubt that their backup plans have backup plans. That is a different thing entirely from being in control.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
So it is not just rearranging the puppets then...which was my original point.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Spion
I hear ya
Interesting that Iran is sailing two warships past Israel today/tomorrow. It looks like a provocation to Israel with the aim being to benefit from any resultant outrage of the Arab (partic. Egyptian) street and its outcomes as reflected in whatever emerges from the current political fluidity
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The more important bit i think is that they went through the suez channel.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Not as unpredictable as what's happening now.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I'd like to learn more about that. Do you have any more details or links etc?
It seems likely to me that what will emerge from the revolts will be pro-capitalist pseudo-democracies, tightly controlled within ideological limits, much similar to what we have in the West.
It is obvious whose interests that would serve.
As I said in our debate about Iran last year, I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't wrong then.
It is obvious whose interests that would serve.
As I said in our debate about Iran last year, I hope I'm wrong. But I wasn't wrong then.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
There is a thread subject here I think about the potential for the revolt to move to Sub saharan Africa. I will try and write an op when I have finished killing zombies (my son is nagging me to play Xbox)
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
exactly:This is the first time Washington has had to factor the man in the souk and Cairo street, as it were, into the equation
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Sorry, hard to tell sometimes. I've seen such certainty that the US was running the world from both left and right that I suspect they'd be shocked to learn that its doesn't control everything. The truly frightening idea to some is that the world exists in chaos.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Which were quickly stamped on, and which I think may have been merely coincidental with what's happen north of the Sahara.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
If anything, Washington looks like it's been totally shellshocked by all this
Oh well it must be true then. Appearance is the new reality.
There are economic and social revolutions and political revolutions though. I suspect that here we are witnessing political revolutions, with whoever eventually comes out on top selling out more or less everything they purport to stand for in order to obtain economic and military aid from the west, with all the usual strings. The mass movements will then divide on the basis of who stands to gain from the changes, with any militancy from the working class and the poor treated ruthlessly.
This, unfortunately, is the pattern of revolution in the post-socialist era.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Washington does indeed look shell shocked.
By the stuff it planned?
Spion
I hear ya
Why do you think that's more important than sailing past Israel?
likesfish
You can't park here sir
That Gaddafi's in power but not causing trouble box ticked sucks too be Libyan but the US don't do regime change very well and a bogeyman whose been neutered is preferable to the unknown. Obama has enough problems without the middle east deciding to change.
he's not a foreign relations expert would prefer not to be involved in Afghan and Iraq but its kinda of hard to get out of those.
bit like the wall coming down nobody in any position of power saw it happening or had a clue what to make of it.
he's not a foreign relations expert would prefer not to be involved in Afghan and Iraq but its kinda of hard to get out of those.
bit like the wall coming down nobody in any position of power saw it happening or had a clue what to make of it.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Some bits will have been. Other bits will be busy picking over what's happened and asking 'Where do we go from here?' 'How do we utilise the opportunity/ies being made available by the chaos and uncertainty?' 'Whom, or what, individuals or groups can we 'work'?' No doubt others will be saying 'Wait and see, this isn't over yet.'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There's a a tendency for people to become isolated from the real struggle when they enter the academy. It leaves then talking about big players and Geo-political stuff. It leaves their view one of shitness.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Because it opens a whole new world up. They can sail past Israel to syria any number of ways.
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