NHS GP Surgery - Private Work

[zxspectrum]

How would you feel if your local NHS (for the moment at least) surgery was run by a practice manager who, along with a few of the GP's, ran a private health-related business from within?

Is it reasonable to object to such a thing?

 

[SpookyFrank]

GP provision is struggling badly, with lots of people finding it hard to get an appointment to see their own GP or any GP at all for that matter. If GP's had loads of spare time on their hands then I'd say they can do what they like with it, but they themselves are only too happy to moan about how overworked they are. Running a private practice alongside an NHS one sounds to me like taking advantage of the overburdened NHS by providing a queue jumping option, which of course makes the situation worse for everyone else.

And doctors get paid fucking plenty as it is. I don't know why anyone in their posistion would be trying to grub up even more money.

 

[FiFi]

Many GPs will undertake private work alongside their NHS responsibilities. There is a list of charges deemed reasonable by the BMA for services such as Travel vaccines, HGV medicals etc.

Or are you talking about charging patients for NHS services? Because that should only happen by agreement with those patients who sign up for it, and should not be undertaken at the expense of NHS patients.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

There is the occasional NHS GP who runs woo businesses (the OP said "healh related") on the side and advertises them in their surgery. That's not on.

 

[bi0boy]

All depends whether this health-related stuff is available on the NHS I'd have thought.

 

[quiquaquo]

Actually had to contend with this bullshit 2 years ago and changed GP surgery.

All tests, blood, x rays, CT scans, MRI etc had to be done by their private health centre next door. It was not permitted to have blood taken at the hospital even if the private phlebotomist was incapable of extracting it herself.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Actually had to contend with this bullshit 2 years ago and changed GP surgery.

All tests, blood, x rays, CT scans, MRI etc had to be done by their private health centre next door. It was not permitted to have blood taken at the hospital even if the private phlebotomist was incapable of extracting it herself.

That sounds like a pretty blatant abuse of GP's comissioning powers. A predictable one though, and not a million miles away from politicians voting through health reforms that will directly benefit their own commercial interests.

 

[8ball]

There is the occasional NHS GP who runs woo businesses (the OP said "healh related") on the side and advertises them in their surgery. That's not on.

If I was the GMC there would be an "any woo and you're struck off" rule.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

How would you feel if your local NHS (for the moment at least) surgery was run by a practice manager who, along with a few of the GP's, ran a private health-related business from within?

Is it reasonable to object to such a thing?

It's reasonable to object to private healthcare full stop.

 

[two sheds]

A friend said that ten years ago she was told the waiting time for an operation by her GP, who then slid a piece of paper across the desk with a figure in pounds which she could only presume was how much she'd have to pay for the operation without the wait.

 

[zxspectrum]

I don't really think an NHS surgery should be used for private work.

That seems to be the case with mine.

 

[zxspectrum]

Many GPs will undertake private work alongside their NHS responsibilities. There is a list of charges deemed reasonable by the BMA for services such as Travel vaccines, HGV medicals etc.

Or are you talking about charging patients for NHS services? Because that should only happen by agreement with those patients who sign up for it, and should not be undertaken at the expense of NHS patients.

I'm not talking about letters and notes (some GPs's charge for letters for ATOS medicals and the like), but that my practice's manager runs a private health business from our surgery and, iirc, some of the GP's themselves, the more senior members, work in that business. I haven't raised this with any of them and I'm not sure how I would since they aren't going to take kindly to it I imagine since they obviously see nothing wrong with it.

I would imagine that if they have time for that, they have time for patients and getting an appointment is already a pain in the arse, as it is for everyone these days. To see one of these doctors will likely have you waiting, when the day comes around, for upwards of 90 minutes just to be seen. The whole thing is a mess.

 

[FiFi]

I'm not talking about letters and notes (some GPs's charge for letters for ATOS medicals and the like), but that my practice's manager runs a private health business from our surgery and, iirc, some of the GP's themselves, the more senior members, work in that business. I haven't raised this with any of them and I'm not sure how I would since they aren't going to take kindly to it I imagine since they obviously see nothing wrong with it.

I would imagine that if they have time for that, they have time for patients and getting an appointment is already a pain in the arse, as it is for everyone these days. To see one of these doctors will likely have you waiting, when the day comes around, for upwards of 90 minutes just to be seen. The whole thing is a mess.

If the private work is interfering with their NHS work then you have cause for complaint, and can raise it with the local Commissioning group and the GPs employer. The practice should have information about the local complaints procedure available in the surgery or on their website.

Alternatively, you should be able to discuss the waiting times with the Practice Manager. It may be that the 2 issues are unrelated, however if the explanation is unacceptable you can then take that complaint further.

 

[toggle]

I'm not talking about letters and notes (some GPs's charge for letters for ATOS medicals and the like), but that my practice's manager runs a private health business from our surgery and, iirc, some of the GP's themselves, the more senior members, work in that business. I haven't raised this with any of them and I'm not sure how I would since they aren't going to take kindly to it I imagine since they obviously see nothing wrong with it.

I would imagine that if they have time for that, they have time for patients and getting an appointment is already a pain in the arse, as it is for everyone these days. To see one of these doctors will likely have you waiting, when the day comes around, for upwards of 90 minutes just to be seen. The whole thing is a mess.

I would be very unimpressed. in part because it's not going to be obvious where the nhs work ends and where the pr8ivate work begins. it's more blurring of the lines between the two and encouraging privitisation.

what did impress was my practice. i askjed if there was a fee for the letter I needed her to write after I needed a uni deadline extension. she said she was supposed to charge, but had never bothered learning how. and himself needed an atos letter, again no charge and a phone call at well after surgery closing to let us know it had been done and would be ready in the morning. if that's how some practices can do things, it shows up the ones that don'[t

 

[zxspectrum]

If the private work is interfering with their NHS work then you have cause for complaint, and can raise it with the local Commissioning group and the GPs employer. The practice should have information about the local complaints procedure available in the surgery or on their website.

Alternatively, you should be able to discuss the waiting times with the Practice Manager. It may be that the 2 issues are unrelated, however if the explanation is unacceptable you can then take that complaint further.

I don't know the specifics of how they structure it, but I'm pretty sure they would argue that it doesn't. But if it is being run from within the surgery then it by definition must have an impact. How can it not?

 

[FiFi]

I don't know the specifics of how they structure it, but I'm pretty sure they would argue that it doesn't. But if it is being run from within the surgery then it by definition must have an impact. How can it not?

I agree, it will have an impact on the NHS work.
Therefore, once you've been given the waffle and unsatisfactory explanation you are can take the complaint further up the chain.

 

[zxspectrum]

I agree, it will have an impact on the NHS work.
Therefore, once you've been given the waffle and unsatisfactory explanation you are can take the complaint further up the chain.

Not sure I want to rock the boat to be honest, since these people are the only doctors I have access to.

I doubt they are doing anything illegal as it were; they'd have to be pretty stupid to want to break the rules.

 

[sim667]

I don't really think an NHS surgery should be used for private work.

That seems to be the case with mine.

This is quite standard as far as I know.... both doctors surgeries I've used have done this, although they always assumed you wanted NHS treatment unless you specifically asked for it.

My dentist did this as well for a while, he said trying to do stuff through the NHS particularly if you're a dentist is just a massive pain in the arse, which is why many dentists won't do NHS at all.

 

[zxspectrum]

This is quite standard as far as I know....

i have no doubt.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

I would want to know that they were channeling money for costs that they would otherwise be paying for (premises, staffing, supplies and utilities) into the NHS practise and that patients were not pressured or confused about their entitlement to free treatment and all that...

 

[mauvais]

I don't really think an NHS surgery should be used for private work.

That seems to be the case with mine.

Do you understand the GP funding model in the first place?

I can't say I do either, but GPs are self employed and many own their surgeries, effectively making them private businesses that happen to spend most of their time contracting to the NHS.

 

[zxspectrum]

Do you understand the GP funding model in the first place?

I can't say I do either, but GPs are self employed and many own their surgeries, effectively making them private businesses that happen to spend most of their time contracting to the NHS.

I have no idea what it is.

Like I said, I'm sure what they are doing is entirely by the book.

It just stinks is all.

Even if they are private, in that sense, the point is that time spent running your own interests is time taken from general practice, and that's not something I agree with.

 

[mauvais]

Even if they are private, in that sense, the point is that time spent running your own interests is time taken from general practice, and that's not something I agree with.

As would shutting down all their NHS work and going fully private, but I don't imagine you'd be blaming them in quite the same way for that.

I suppose that whether the partial split is fair, for some definition of fair probably revolving around the taxpayer, depends on whether NHS funding for their business is directly proportional to their NHS workload.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

AFAIK there is no funding based on inputs and available resource; there is a lump sum based on the population served and their modelled level of health, and another big chunk based on a range of outputs and outcomes.

The important issue really is about cross-promotion of private health services by GPs. There are perverse incentives for them to commission fewer NHS services if they steer people towards private, and that isn't on.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Do you understand the GP funding model in the first place?

I can't say I do either, but GPs are self employed and many own their surgeries, effectively making them private businesses that happen to spend most of their time contracting to the NHS.

And who funded their medical training, the private sector or the NHS?

 

[mauvais]

And who funded their medical training, the private sector or the NHS?

Whole different argument. How would you calculate this debt and at what point would it be repaid?

 

[weltweit]

I am not happy with private and state medicine mixing it up like this.

I knew a man with prostate cancer who was offered an NHS op in 6 months time or private op almost immediately. He was encouraged to take the quick operation in part because he didn't want the cancer to develop or spread. It was the same surgeon in both cases though the private op was in a private hospital. To my thinking, if the surgeon was available for a quick operation privately why not also quickly on the NHS?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Whole different argument. How would you calculate this debt and at what point would it be repaid?

I'm not suggesting it should be quantified, I'm merely suggesting that doctors should factor such things into their thinking when deciding who they want to work for.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'd love to be a GP. I could quite happily spend all day typing stuff into Google Symptoms, telling people they can't have a referral to a specialist and generally being rude to sick and vulnerable people for a very large amount of money.

 

[mauvais]

The important issue really is about cross-promotion of private health services by GPs. There are perverse incentives for them to commission fewer NHS services if they steer people towards private, and that isn't on.

Indeed, and there are also complex issues around creating an environment where NHS money (for free-to-the-patient treatment) is forcibly channelled into private health business because there is insufficient public provision, a self-reinforcing cycle - but IMO these are high level systemic traps, not necessarily something to blame GPs for.