Next level targeted advertising/propaganda etc

[Sasaferrato]

I was up on the roof of my workplace the other day, doing some repairs to drains. I took a photo of the view, and a few minutes later I got an alert from Google with a photo of the same view taken by someone else.

A few minutes later I got a second alert containing my own photo, run through some sort of filter. Seemed like an advert for a photo editing app.

I'm now considering ditching the smartphone completely. Proper creepy.

I ditched my smartphone (well, it is still in a drawer) a couple of years back, mainly due to having to charge the bloody thing so often. I have an Alcatel one now that makes calls and sends texts. I don't miss the smartphone at all.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Okay bit personal but I got a pile in my bum last week, np had one before when I was riding a bike a lot. Chemist, cream, seems to be getting better.
FB has been flooding my feed advertising bowel cancer testing kits.
No googling just bought some cream on my card and obv not discussing the subject on SM.
WTF

I've noticed similar tracking advertising on my tablet, you look at something, then for weeks you get ads. The ads are for chests of drawers at the moment, and as we still haven't decided on anything, for once I don't mind.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Using Incognito mode doesn't hide your IP or other indications of your data trail not generated by your browser. It's not done solely through cookies and such.

VPN does.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Do none of you have a adblocker installed?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

That film has a scene where an American Prof asks a room how many think they've been listened in to via their phone and after most people raise their hands, says they're not because 'the algorithms *are* that good'.

The instances of women being served pregnancy-related ads before they knew themselves they were pregnant come to mind.

They're also an example of how "oh but I don't mind being tracked and seeing a few ads" is an attitude that doesn't just affect you. It all goes into training the systems to be used on everyone - let alone your personal connections that it's identified.

 

[StoneRoad]

use an ad-blocker and block cookies at every opportunity ...

 

[oryx]

Unless I've misunderstood people...I reckon targeted ads popping up on websites, related to things you've looked at and searched online is one thing.

It's bloody annoying and intrusive, but the price you pay for the internet for all its many faults) as a huge and free source of knowledge and entertainment.

It's the tailored ads resulting from WhatsApp conversations and IRL conversations that are unnerving.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Unless I've misunderstood people...I reckon targeted ads popping up on websites, related to things you've looked at and searched online is one thing.

It's bloody annoying and intrusive, but the price you pay for the internet for all its many faults) as a huge and free source of knowledge and entertainment.

It's the tailored ads resulting from WhatsApp conversations and IRL conversations that are unnerving.

It is all the same thing. There is no difference, it's just alternative data sources.

 

[mango5]

It can be spooky when one morning something niche gets suggested or advertised, that you know you've never searched for and that only came up in a private conversation the night before, with someone you are pretty sure hasn't searched for or ever bought etc etc.

 

[oryx]

It is all the same thing. There is no difference, it's just alternative data sources.

Beg to differ. I don't think it is the same thing.

You can compare looking at the internet to reading a newspaper. You'll get different ads in, say, The Guardian from the ones you'd get in the local paper, based on (much more simplistic) marketing data. Everyone knows that papers need a certain amount of advertising revenue to survive and it is the same with the internet, unless say the sites have an alternative revenue source such as this one and Wikipedia relying on donations, or someone putting up a website from their own resources. Therefore, people put up with ads intruding on YouTube videos, ads that flash and disturb your concentration when reading a page, clickbait, etc. Or they use adblockers.

It's a moral/privacy issue, rather than a technological one - the powers of technology are huge and the ability of Big Data to access nominally private WhatsApp conversations and to pick up verbal, offline conversations via microphones isn't surprising, it's that these methods of communication are being used for (in its least sinister form) targeted advertising, and that Big Data is not being honest about it.

 

[mx wcfc]

I've noticed similar tracking advertising on my tablet, you look at something, then for weeks you get ads. The ads are for chests of drawers at the moment, and as we still haven't decided on anything, for once I don't mind.

The logarithms are still pretty thick though, despite all the "AI" bollocks. Having just bought some chinos for work, off the internet (only way I can get trousers that actually fit), I am being bombarded with ads from the same company I've just bought two pairs of strides from. All that shit costs them money.

 

[mango5]

Thick *and* prescient, just like humans eh? It is odd when the spam is for something you just bought especially when it's a big ticket item.

 

[mango5]

TBH there's something to be said for targeting. The alternative life I could lead according to the feed off my 'no tracking' Google news looks horrendous.

 

[dylanredefined]

I just wish I could afford the stuff I get targeted with Or its stuff I have just brought .

 

[Gaia]

Using Incognito mode doesn't hide your IP or other indications of your data trail not generated by your browser. It's not done solely through cookies and such.

All 'incognito mode' does is prevent the sites you visit being recorded in your browser history, it doesn't even prevent the storing of cookies (as far as I know).

I've been trying to use Tor but a) I'm not entirely sure how anon it is and b) it's a right royal pain in the fucking arse to use for just about anything.

 

[Gaia]

VPN does.

You even have to be careful with VPNs, Sas, they're not all created equal, many will still log your activity. Opera claims to have a free VPN but, in reality, it's just a proxy, it really doesn't make you any safer. I've been looking into setting up a VPN for ages but, with my connection (which averages 500kbps down on a good day) it makes doing anything online impossible.

Still, if you checked my IP, it'll give you the impression I'm in Exeter, because that's where my ISP is based (yes, it's Eclipse, I remember when it used to be more than half-decent. Round here the max is something like 80Mbps, the package my father has with Eclipse is half that (which should give a download speed of 5MB/s, never have I ever got anything anywhere near that, sometimes it's so slow that it's like I'm still using fucking dial-up! ).

Father dearest is perfectly happy because all he uses the internet for is email, the Torygraph website, posting the occasional bits to his golf club's website, and holiday stuff (booking flights, mainly)).

 

[mauvais]

We ought to be fairly sure that you're not getting ads based on the text of WhatsApp conversations, as it's end to end encrypted. As soon as you follow a link, though, or e.g. watch embedded media, that blows it open because all of that is trackable.

We can also be fairly sure that your phone isn't listening on an open mic all the time. It's not technically feasible for a start. We can also find out - phones and tech isn't an inscrutable black box, with some knowledge you can inspect what's going on, and people (e.g. security and privacy researchers) regularly do.

IMO you should be thinking about how the things observed on this thread have happened, but don't stop at the easiest cop-out answer of - for example - my phone is listening to everything I say. And definitely don't assume that some technical action like a VPN will end it.

What you're experiencing is made up of something more complex like a mixture of tracking your actions and profiling people like you.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You even have to be careful with VPNs, Sas, they're not all created equal, many will still log your activity. Opera claims to have a free VPN but, in reality, it's just a proxy, it really doesn't make you any safer. I've been looking into setting up a VPN for ages but, with my connection (which averages 500kbps down on a good day) it makes doing anything online impossible.

Still, if you checked my IP, it'll give you the impression I'm in Exeter, because that's where my ISP is based (yes, it's Eclipse, I remember when it used to be more than half-decent. Round here the max is something like 80Mbps, the package my father has with Eclipse is half that (which should give a download speed of 5MB/s, never have I ever got anything anywhere near that, sometimes it's so slow that it's like I'm still using fucking dial-up! ).

Father dearest is perfectly happy because all he uses the internet for is email, the Torygraph website, posting the occasional bits to his golf club's website, and holiday stuff (booking flights, mainly)).

I use Nord.

 

[Supine]

We can also be fairly sure that your phone isn't listening on an open mic all the time. It's not technically feasible for a start.

In the next gen sets the mic will be getting used to constantly monitor music to build an idea of what is being played where at all times...

 

[mauvais]

In the next gen sets the mic will be getting used to constantly monitor music to build an idea of what is being played where at all times...

I have my doubts about the production feasibility - mostly battery impact, not of a hot mic per se but of doing anything with its recordings.

However... until recently it used to be that data had to be sent to the cloud for analysis and that would be prohibitively expensive in a variety of ways. This year, processing capability has moved into the client and so it's opened up the possibility.

For now at least, we're still in the world of local trigger phrases ('OK Google' etc) rather than constant in depth analysis.

 

[skyscraper101]

I've never been more convinced my Alexa is listening to speech and running targeted advertising.

This morning I had Radio 4 on and they were talking about Warren Buffet and how he invests in big brands and holds onto shares in 'everyday store essentials' through the years being the key to having acquired his billions - they cited brands such as DURACELL and COCA COLA. And to give an older reference they also mentioned KODAK as a former big brand essential item (but nowadays not so much etc etc)..

Log into Amazon a few hours later and.... DURACELL and KODAK film being run in a list of 'everyday essentials' on the home page.

 

[two sheds]

I'm increasingly feeling like an old Luddite seeing friends talking into the phone for requesting a google search and the like but I'm having nothing to do with Alexa (or speech recognition in general I don't think).

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

skyscraper101 you seem surprised?

The Terrible Truth About Alexa

This week, I read through a history of everything I’ve said to Alexa, and it felt a little bit like reading an old diary. Until I remembered that the

gizmodo.com

 

[skyscraper101]

I mean, it's ironic really that for all the 'smart' capabilities of Alexa, it wasn't able to distinguish that the speech came off the radio, streamed from its own speaker.

 

[two sheds]

I suppose they might feel you've anyway been exposed to the 'products' and so will have thought "oho yes those are exactly what I need".

 

[killer b]

This one is confusing me, I wondered if anyone had any idea how this could work, or if it's just a weird coincidence: A few weeks ago, Mrs B showed me a photo on her whatsapp of some glasses her brother was thinking of buying from a non-mainstream glasses manufacturer. Mrs B doesn't have a facebook account, the photo wasn't forwarded to me, and she didn't name the glasses manufacturer when she showed me the picture.

Later that day, I started getting adverts for glasses on my facebook - this is new, I don't normally get adverts for glasses (I haven't had them since either, other than for a few days after this event) - I laughed and mentioned this to mrs b, along with the name of the manufacturer I was being advertised about: it was the same manufacturer her brother had been looking at.

Any ideas? I am friends with her brother on facebook, but we don't interact on there at all.

 

[skyscraper101]

I suppose they might feel you've anyway been exposed to the 'products' and so will have thought "oho yes those are exactly what I need".

I think they're clutching at straws if they think I'm buying kodak film in this day an age.

 

[two sheds]

Next stage will be to pipe soothing whale noises at night with subliminal "you want a Kooooooooooooooodak film you can't do without a Koooooooooooodak film you want to buy it from Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazon.

 

[Crispy]

Any ideas? I am friends with her brother on facebook, but we don't interact on there at all.

That's all it takes. Facebook owns Whatsapp remember.

If phones really were "listening in" all the time, the hyper-vigilant security/privacy geeks would have uncovered it by now. It's impossible to hide. In all of these stories I don't see anything that can't be explained by coincidence or creepy algorithms.

Show me some controlled experimental data and maybe I'll buy into it.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Is Your Phone Is Listening to You? Here's How to Stop It. » The Wonder of Tech

The estimated reading time for this post is 5 minutesDon’t miss => How to Stop Your Devices from Listening to You [Infographic] Q. Call me paranoid, but I think my cell phone is listening to me. I was planning a funeral and searching on Google for funeral homes. I had just typed “funera” and...

wonderoftech.com