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Netherlands v Mexico (Knockout Stage) Sunday 29th June 2014

Badgers said:
Rubbish. The referee will make mistakes and diving is one of the hardest to spot. The game is fast moving and penalty areas are congested with players blocking the views and feet/legs/arms everywhere.

The usual way of accepting this is that both sides will usually get a decision or two go their way and it all balances out.

However if a player actually admits to diving it should be dealt with.
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I don't know where you're disagreeing with me :hmm:
 
Badgers said:
You said it's a man's game. That is a sweeping nonsense statement.

Maybe I am agreeing with you :D.
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I was being slightly facetious - I agree with you about cheaters being punished!

I just think that the glut of diving on the scale to which it's now prevalent is caused primarily by a lowering of the criteria for which a foul is now given. For me football is a physical, contact sport, and the large number of penalties that are now given because a defender brushes an attacker's leg are a direct cause of the culture of diving in the game nowadays.

Of course, I know that it's always happened, but not on this scale, and not with this much acceptance from the wider public. A few years ago people were disgusted by the actions of Klinsmann etc in winning free-kicks and penalties, but nowadays there's encouragement from all quarters for attackers to go down at the slightest touch.

That's what I think is against the spirit of the game.
 
strung out said:
I was being slightly facetious - I agree with you about cheaters being punished!

I just think that the glut of diving on the scale to which it's now prevalent is caused primarily by a lowering of the criteria for which a foul is now given. For me football is a physical, contact sport, and the large number of penalties that are now given because a defender brushes an attacker's leg are a direct cause of the culture of diving in the game nowadays.

Of course, I know that it's always happened, but not on this scale, and not with this much acceptance from the wider public. A few years ago people were disgusted by the actions of Klinsmann etc in winning free-kicks and penalties, but nowadays there's encouragement from all quarters for attackers to go down at the slightest touch.

That's what I think is against the spirit of the game.
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I think everyone agrees on this.
 
'strung out' is correct. 'Diving' is a rational response by players to rules or interpretations of rules which punish contact in football far harsher than basketball. They have turned it into effectively a non contact sport, where defending has become more about containment rather than tackling. If you don't want players to take advantage of this by making the most of ANY contact then its simple really, allow some forms of contact.

The reason many fans accept this is because this has been done by the footballing authorities very gradually and sneakily, without debate or decree. Heck, when I highlighted this revolution in the sport (the biggest since the introduction of the offside rule) on these forums I was greeted with at best indifference at worst hostility. Not so much now (its like denying the earth isnt flat) but some fans and even ex pro's are unwilling or cant grasp that the sport has changed beyond recognition of even 15 years ago (a spectator from USA 94 transported to the present would find today's stop start play bizarre beyond belief) and that's why they all get all irate about people like Robben and Ronaldo, those master exploiters of the rules banning contact.

Id much rather discuss this with someone who thought these changes were a good thing rather than somebody who stupidly pretends they don't exist. Personally I have no wish to return to the days where you could cynically foul people to gain advantage (the mirror of today's diving to reach success) and even hack someone out the match. But I cant help but feel a better balance was reached in the late 90's and early 00's. Now its gone too far the other way and the outcomes of too many matches are being decided by the officials not by actual play. Sport does some integrity.
 
leftistangel said:
'strung out' is correct. 'Diving' is a rational response by players to rules or interpretations of rules which punish contact in football far harsher than basketball. They have turned it into effectively a non contact sport, where defending has become more about containment rather than tackling. If you don't want players to take advantage of this by making the most of ANY contact then its simple really, allow some forms of contact.

The reason many fans accept this is because this has been done by the footballing authorities very gradually and sneakily, without debate or decree. Heck, when I highlighted this revolution in the sport (the biggest since the introduction of the offside rule) on these forums I was greeted with at best indifference at worst hostility. Not so much now (its like denying the earth isnt flat) but some fans and even ex pro's are unwilling or cant grasp that the sport has changed beyond recognition of even 15 years ago (a spectator from USA 94 transported to the present would find today's stop start play bizarre beyond belief) and that's why they all get all irate about people like Robben and Ronaldo, those master exploiters of the rules banning contact.

Id much rather discuss this with someone who thought these changes were a good thing rather than somebody who stupidly pretends they don't exist. Personally I have no wish to return to the days where you could cynically foul people to gain advantage (the mirror of today's diving to reach success) and even hack someone out the match. But I cant help but feel a better balance was reached in the late 90's and early 00's. Now its gone too far the other way and the outcomes of too many matches are being decided by the officials not by actual play. Sport does some integrity.
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Well, based upon this World Cup your rose tinted views and analogy are shred to ribbons, it has been a brilliant World Cup despite Robbens diving, Luis Suarez biting, Cameroon fighting and occasional refs gaffe, light years better than anytime from the nineties or noughties. In fact the only World Cup that for me compares with this was 1970. I'm an old cunt, I've watched them all.

Spectators from the USA are lapping this up, far more exciting than 1998/2002 etc

Referees have always fucked up big time since they were introduced (Maradona hand of God 1986). Things 'evolve' it hasn't been a revolution despite what you may think, and I don't see anything wrong with having rules tightened that try to protect people from dreadful injuries and ones that enhance the technical side of the game, football is a minimal contact sport, yet you could also hardly argue their isn't a physical side to the game, the Dutch are pretty physical as are the Greeks. And before you ask, I don't particularly like boxing.

The quality of refs now is hugely improved, the football far more technical and skilful in most parts. It is better... England lagging behind of course... Bring back Bobby Moore who is still considered to be one of the greatest defenders of all time, he knew how to tackle (Jairzhino blah blah) without breaking someone's ligaments, he would have slotted well into this more protective style of the game that you seem to have issue with. I like it, give me more......
 
I think the controversies you mention above are actually precisely what has made it a decent World Cup. It would have been pretty dull otherwise, without these cheating fuckwits, Suarez, Robben etc.
 
gabi said:
I think the controversies you mention above are actually precisely what has made it a decent World Cup. It would have been pretty dull otherwise, without these cheating fuckwits, Suarez, Robben etc.
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Yep you could say that.... sort off paradoxically right.... it adds to the voyeurism of entertainment... as did Maradona hand of god, its still talked about now. The Luis Suarez bite will still be talked about in 40 years. But I would hardly say the tournament would have been 'dull' without those incidents, its been fab....
 
also, didn't one of the mexican players who fouled robben earlier in the match go in so strongly that he (ie the mexican player) had to then be carried off in a stretcher?

the Dutchies aren't the cheaters!*

(*especially if I win the work sweepstake, which i obviously won't)
 
fakeplasticgirl said:
also, didn't one of the mexican players who fouled robben earlier in the match go in so strongly that he (ie the mexican player) had to then be carried off in a stretcher?

the Dutchies aren't the cheaters!*

(*especially if I win the work sweepstake, which i obviously won't)
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He fouled him so bad he broke his own leg :(
 
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