Negating the effectiveness of water cannon.

[ymu]

Bandanas and an onion/lemon deal with tear gas. Bandana has a second purpose in defending against the fine mist sort of cannon attack (and, obviously, a third for masking up).

Water cannon are only really going to be a concern on big national demos that need to end up in one place - so hopefully only a tiny proportion of those in the coming months - but those which are focused on parliament during a vote are vulnerable. Kamikaze attacks from individual protesters are up to them, but I'd think the priority would be making sure people are prepared to defend themselves against them and thus defeat the object.

Main thing is, if they use water cannon it's for dispersal - they can't kettle at the same time. So they get mobs running riot around London instead of outside parliament. Doesn't really matter, as long as rings are run around them ...

 

[Idaho]

I think the idea is dealing with them if they are deployed in situations like last week's demos

The answer is the same as the answer to kettling. Stage spread out protests in areas of the city which have lots of narrow alleys, bridges, tunnels, and other potential dispersal and escape routes. Deploy makeshift barracades to prevent the easy moving of police vehicles (chained together shopping trolleys?). Keep moving, keep in contact, disperse when under threat, reassemble when there are no police.

A couple of days playing cat and mouse in the City would bring much of the place to a standstill. Target streets to gridlock them, etc.

My reservation is that the strategy is all about looking tough and having a pitched battle, rather than trying to maximise disruption.

 

[zenie]

Tear gas deserves a place on this thread as it can be added to the water mixture. Gas masks are easily available and not too expensive. Screwfix do lots of different ones but I personally would find them a bit restrictive. Plus if they get ripped off your head, you would leave DNA all over them.

I doubt gas would be deployed here. You could see it drifting into buildings, killing asthmatics, upsetting babies. I think it will be water cannon, long shields (recently out and about) and baton rounds? When? Well probably after people start throwing petrol bombs.

They pulled a man out of his fuckin wheelchair and dragged him along the floor!! I'm not sure what depths the police are prepared to sink to tbh!

Bandanas and an onion deal with tear gas. Bandana has a second purpose in defending against the fine mist sort of cannon attack (and, obviously, a third for masking up).

Bandana and an onion? Are you serious?!

Everyone dresses black bloc obviously Bandanas and gas masks, they'd look like an army!! oh god...

 

[ViolentPanda]

And this is one of those times. There are no generals directing this towards pre-agreed objectives.

All the better in terms of autonomous groups undertaking this or that action, unconnected to a central locus of control.
The government know this too, it's why they're so thoroughly desperate to generate this narrative about "hard-core" and "class war" activists, and to attribute conflict during the protest to "street gangs". That way they can pretend there's some ultra-leftist or anarchist eminence gris (no, attica, not you!) behind everything, rather than acknowledging that they've fucked so many people off that they've near-spontaneously come together in resistance.

 

[DotCommunist]

The answer is the same as the answer to kettling. Stage spread out protests in areas of the city which have lots of narrow alleys, bridges, tunnels, and other potential dispersal and escape routes. Deploy makeshift barracades to prevent the easy moving of police vehicles (chained together shopping trolleys?). Keep moving, keep in contact, disperse when under threat, reassemble when there are no police.

petrol powered forklift

 

[DrRingDing]

I doubt gas would be deployed here. You could see it drifting into buildings, killing asthmatics, upsetting babies. I think it will be water cannon, long shields (recently out and about) and baton rounds? When? Well probably after people start throwing petrol bombs.

I doubt tear gas would be used, as well, but I think they'd try that before using rubber bullets in England. Plus, OB like to use tear gas canisters to shoot directly at crowds. That'll be a handy way around the politics of deploying rubber bullets.

 

[nick h.]

This thread seems like a red herring to me. The problem the police have is that the arrestable people are hugely outnumbered by peaceful kids. So Parliament won't allow water cannon because it doesn't discriminate - it will curtail the right to have a peaceful demo and lose the government's moral argument. If the police up the ante it will have to be with something selective, i.e. snatch squads. Which will be interesting. It will make for great telly, which will at least keep the issue at the top of the news agenda.

 

[ymu]

Bandana and an onion? Are you serious?!

Yes. Acid helps to neutralise the gas and a strong smell reminds your brain that you need to breathe. Bandana to provide a barrier to the gas, and can be soaked in lemon/onion juice to keep the defences in place.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tear gas deserves a place on this thread as it can be added to the water mixture. Gas masks are easily available and not too expensive. Screwfix do lots of different ones but I personally would find them a bit restrictive. Plus if they get ripped off your head, you would leave DNA all over them.

Not too sure a standard fume mask would provide much protection against tear gas. Probably one of the ones with a HEPA filter would be better.
I'd probably go for this mask, and these goggles.

I doubt gas would be deployed here. You could see it drifting into buildings, killing asthmatics, upsetting babies.

Yeah, but it wouldn't be the fault of the government if that happened, it'd be the fault of the damned ungrateful prole scum doing the protesting.

I think it will be water cannon, long shields (recently out and about) and baton rounds? When? Well probably after people start throwing petrol bombs.

Wonder which baton rounds they'll use?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Main thing is, if they use water cannon it's for dispersal - they can't kettle at the same time. So they get mobs running riot around London instead of outside parliament. Doesn't really matter, as long as rings are run around them ...

It should be borne in mind, however, that if the cannon crews have any notion of strategy and a method of direct communication on the RT (does the Met's system still have a "talk through" facility?), then they can coordinate to "herd" protesters in a desired direction, or even to corral them for short periods.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The answer is the same as the answer to kettling. Stage spread out protests in areas of the city which have lots of narrow alleys, bridges, tunnels, and other potential dispersal and escape routes. Deploy makeshift barracades to prevent the easy moving of police vehicles (chained together shopping trolleys?). Keep moving, keep in contact, disperse when under threat, reassemble when there are no police.

A couple of days playing cat and mouse in the City would bring much of the place to a standstill. Target streets to gridlock them, etc.

My reservation is that the strategy is all about looking tough and having a pitched battle, rather than trying to maximise disruption.

Surely the strategy is to have no over-arching strategy, just a strategic objective - the repealing of the cuts?
As for people looking tough, etc, that doesn't seem to be the way things have gone so far (although I assume we can expect a certain number of liggers and protest groupies to appear), in fact the maximisation of disruption seems to be a buzz-phrase.

 

[TopCat]

The answer is the same as the answer to kettling. Stage spread out protests in areas of the city which have lots of narrow alleys, bridges, tunnels, and other potential dispersal and escape routes. Deploy makeshift barracades to prevent the easy moving of police vehicles (chained together shopping trolleys?). Keep moving, keep in contact, disperse when under threat, reassemble when there are no police.

A couple of days playing cat and mouse in the City would bring much of the place to a standstill. Target streets to gridlock them, etc.

My reservation is that the strategy is all about looking tough and having a pitched battle, rather than trying to maximise disruption.

Oh tactics for disruption are fairly well honed.

 

[TopCat]

This thread seems like a red herring to me. The problem the police have is that the arrestable people are hugely outnumbered by peaceful kids. So Parliament won't allow water cannon because it doesn't discriminate - it will curtail the right to have a peaceful demo and lose the government's moral argument. If the police up the ante it will have to be with something selective, i.e. snatch squads. Which will be interesting. It will make for great telly, which will at least keep the issue at the top of the news agenda.

I remember well snatch squads back in the day. they used them on the poll tax riot for a while. Until the snatch squads got snatched and battered.

 

[zenie]

Fancy dress for all

And what about Agent Provacateurs....any of them been seen?

 

[TopCat]

This looks like it could deal with water cannon and tear gas. Pity it is not in black.

 

[ymu]

Fancy dress for all

And what about Agent Provacateurs....any of them been seen?

Yeah - being discussed on the protest thread. About twenty thugs being allowed to attack people by the police. Possibly EDL.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

This looks like it could deal with water cannon and tear gas. Pity it is not in black.

Try this place ... they have quite the variety

http://www.regulation-london.com/

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

This is the future of protesting:

Minus the fins of course.

And if things get really hairy you can jump in to the Thames and swim away unseen.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This thread seems like a red herring to me. The problem the police have is that the arrestable people are hugely outnumbered by peaceful kids. So Parliament won't allow water cannon because it doesn't discriminate - it will curtail the right to have a peaceful demo and lose the government's moral argument. If the police up the ante it will have to be with something selective, i.e. snatch squads. Which will be interesting. It will make for great telly, which will at least keep the issue at the top of the news agenda.

Commissioner Stephenson has already spoken today of protest marches being banned, so perhaps they're not as concerned with the moral argument as you believe?

 

[A380]

I think we want to win.

What does that look like?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Try this place ... they have quite the variety

http://www.regulation-london.com/

I wonder if May gets Stephenson to wear the gimp mask?

 

[ymu]

What does that look like?

A bit like this, only better.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Commissioner Stephenson has already spoken today of protest marches being banned, so perhaps they're not as concerned with the moral argument as you believe?

They have a moral argument I think, it just relies on premises that other people are unlikely to consider valid.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

double-post

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I wonder if May gets Stephenson to wear the gimp mask?

Oh please god I'm about to eat ... or possibly not now .. yuck

 

[ViolentPanda]

They have a moral argument I think, it just relies on premises that other people are unlikely to consider valid.

Or, indeed, moral.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh please god I'm about to eat ... or possibly not now .. yuck

Sorry about that, Bernie!

 

[Pickman's model]

i think a simple paving slab would deal with the watercannon, if dropped from five stories or higher.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Depends on the armoured vehicle, really. Some of the older ones were well-shit, like sieves. crap seals, the lot. You could tell when someone was having a fag in a Pig, because the smoke would come out of the gaps in the screen seals!

lol fuckin' terrible things, pigs.

Just catching up, but hasn't May dismissed the use of water canon?

To be honest, bring what the fuck they want, we'll out number them.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I remember well snatch squads back in the day. they used them on the poll tax riot for a while. Until the snatch squads got snatched and battered.

hehe