Negating the effectiveness of water cannon.

[past caring]

Well, if you see him delivering a panic-stricken stare out of the window, I suggest that you duck.

I was thinking about asking whether he knows anyone can get us some RPGs.

But on a more sensible note, they do need to operate with plod in close proximity to prevent them being attacked from the flanks. Nothing is impervious if isolated in a crowd - force the cap of the petrol tank and pour some sugar in, paint on the windows, there must be options not mentioned yet.

But the fact that they need to be operated near ob in support might be the real weakness for a determined crowd that had numbers - leave them with no option but to turn the cannon on ob too if they want to use it.

 

[1%er]

what about stuff that will make foam when mixed with water?

Like refills for foam fire extinguisher. they come on two bags one with white powder and one with brown, throw the white powder around on the floor before it kicks off and when they start the water cannon throw the brown powder everywhere, I'm surprised there isn't a video of this on youtube.

One refill will make more than enough foam to fill an average size bathroom, so if a couple of hundred of the thousands demonstrating take some along you'll all have a foam bath, if the foam is high enough they will have to stop the water as they will not be able to see through the foam.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I would imagine that there would be a line of foot soldiers flanking it so you can only face the thing head on and you won't get close enough to cover it in paint before it blows you away.

Despite the posturing by May, we ain't getting them in London. Things are nowhere near that stage yet.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

I face them abroad once, they don't last long and I heard they take an age to refill. At this time of year you are going to get pretty cold if you are soaked. So bring a rain mac.

 

[Threshers_Flail]

Despite the posturing by May, we ain't getting them in London. Things are nowhere near that stage yet.

I'd agree with that.

Worryingly in the grauniad it says that future protests may be banned? (Last line of article).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/student-fees-protest-kettling-human-rights

 

[past caring]

I would imagine that there would be a line of foot soldiers flanking it so you can only face the thing head on and you won't get close enough to cover it in paint before it blows you away.

That only works if;

a) the ob get to choose the terrain, and

b) they deploy the water cannon from the off.

The problem with deploying from the off is that it immediately ups the ante, so can hardly be claimed as a "calming" measure. And if the cannon are brought up from the rear, all it needs is for the crowd to keep their nerve and stay toe-to-toe with ob for deployment to be impossible without also turning the cannon on the cops.

Despite the posturing by May, we ain't getting them in London. Things are nowhere near that stage yet.

But this I agree with. For the moment.

 

[TopCat]

I'd agree with that.

Worryingly in the grauniad it says that future protests may be banned? (Last line of article).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/dec/14/student-fees-protest-kettling-human-rights

How do they ban a demo organised by no particular person?

 

[butchersapron]

May have to dig the catapults out again, then make them chase us up small roads where they can't turn then block them in.

 

[1%er]

Get some of the students to put their skills to use

Some homemade recipes for fog juice are:

1. 15%-35% food grade glycerine to 1 quart distilled water

2. 125 ml glycerine to 1 liter distilled water
(glycerine creates a 'haze' at concentrations of 15% or less and more of a fog or smoke at concentrations higher than 15%)

3. Unscented mineral oil (baby oil), with or without water
(I can't vouche for the safety of using mineral oil for fog juice)

4. 10% distilled water: 90% propylene glycol (dense fog)
40% distilled water: 60% propylene glycol (quick dissipating)
60% water: 40% propylene glycol (very quick dissipation)

5. 30% distilled water: 35% dipropylene glycol: 35% triethylene glycol (long-lasting fog)

6. 30% distilled water: 70% dipropylene glycol (dense fog)

The resulting smoke should not smell 'burnt'. If it does, likely causes are too high of an operating temperature or too much glycerine/glycol/mineral oil in the mixture. The lower the percentage of organic, the less expensive the fog juice, but the fog will be lighter and will not last as long. Distilled water is only necessary if a heat exchanger or other tubing is used in the system. Using a homemade fog mixture in a commercial machine will almost certainly void the warranty, possibly damage the machine, and possibly pose a fire and/or health hazard.

 

[fractionMan]

Just checked. Fog machines require lots of power

 

[TopCat]

I have mucked about with black widow type catapults but never on demos. The pouches always seemed too small, you keep dropping the load.

 

[lighterthief]

Better just to not get caught up in a static confrontational situation, where water cannons (and kettling) can be employed.

 

[TopCat]

Many of London's streets are too small to deploy water cannon. I guess that the barriers that the police love to deploy may hinder the deployment if they are tangled up in a pile in front of them.

 

[sim667]

How are they filled up? could someone not just open that, it would empty out quickly if its emptying out of both ends.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'd assume they fill them up from those fire points the Fire engines use

 

[1%er]

Just checked. Fog machines require lots of power

Utilize all the hot air

I have no idea how they work, but the foam works and there must be some chemicals that will make smoke if water is added.

If water is to be the new weapon (and I don't think it will be) to counter it you need to use something that reacts with it, I am just offering a view in the hope someone who understands chemistry will have a better idea.

 

[moon23]

Sir Hugh Orde was pretty clear on Today, that the police were not considering the use of water cannons. This is the Home Secretary indulging in placation of the Daily Mail, rather than a serious proposal.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh yeah, and the training with 6 forces means that it's not now on the table at some point.

 

[TopCat]

Sir Hugh Orde was pretty clear on Today, that the police were not considering the use of water cannons. This is the Home Secretary indulging in placation of the Daily Mail, rather than a serious proposal.

Fuck off moon.

 

[DrRingDing]

"The Belgian Gendarmerie lent the RUC two, technologically improved water cannon in 1999. They were later used in the Drumcree protests.

The one we faced in Belgium had two hoses that worked independently. That was about 2002 I think.

Waterproofs are recommended in the cold.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

For info the N Ireland one are the old Dennis fire engines with the blue lights removed and replaced by two fire hose. So in effect it's a white fire engine in a caged cab.

 

[DrRingDing]

Police tactics would have to be turned on its head. So far they've used containment as a method but water canons disperse people.

If they wish to use weaponry borrowed from overseas then we ought to change accordingly.

For amoured vehicles there's really only one genuinely effective defence for us.....

 

[DrRingDing]

But in our age of CCTV it'll be bloody risky.

 

[Threshers_Flail]

How do they ban a demo organised by no particular person?

True say.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the police get water cannon to attack protesters how do people negate their effectiveness? It seems a real fear that the water stream may damage the eyes, nose and mouth. So goggles? Getting wet at this time of year could well pose serious health risks for many people too.

I would think though that the water cannon trucks are pretty cumbersome. Plus they hold a finite amount of water.

Any one got any thoughts?

Some of the German squatter-chists I knew in the 80s used army surplus poncho-liners to keep the water off. They're waterproof and are roomy.
Nose and mouth, you just need a bandanna fastened tightly over them, to deflect the full force of the jet, so it doesn't go up your nose/down your throat at force and choke you.

Eyes, deffo one-piece goggles, not the Biggles-type ones, because the lenses will come out and twat you in the eye, whereas scuba-type goggles/masks are proof against pressure.

 

[moon23]

But in our age of CCTV it'll be bloody risky.

There are counter-measures to police survillance of peaceful protestors

Infared LEDs can be built into many things:



Also there are simple designs for face paint that counter automated face recognition technology:

http://www.searchthenetnow.com/tag/anti-face-recognition/


Moon was thinking of profiteering from these protests by offering face painting services and also supplies for people stuck in kettles.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think the times demand RPG's somehow! But these bulky beats do have weak points. The tyres obviously. Plus they need to see where they are going so paint thrown on the windscreen would be effective. Have we got any people from the north of Ireland here who might know?

The tyres aren't a weak spot. They're solid pieces of rubber with the usual radial steel belting. You'd have to hack chunks out of them to do any damage.

I've always thought that a can of expanding foam would be a good one to squirt in the air vents/air intake, and up the exhaust. I've never had the opportunity to try it, though.

 

[past caring]

Moon was thinking of profiteering from these protests by offering face painting services and also supplies for people stuck in kettles.

You're talking about yourself in the third person now?

Nurse?!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

They have one obvious weakness - they can only aim at one point at any one time.

Which is why the Germans always use two or more at a time.

 

[moon23]

The tyres aren't a weak spot. They're solid pieces of rubber with the usual radial steel belting. You'd have to hack chunks out of them to do any damage.

I've always thought that a can of expanding foam would be a good one to squirt in the air vents/air intake, and up the exhaust. I've never had the opportunity to try it, though.

A giant umbrella would work