National archive 'lose' 'sensitive documents'

[J Ed]

Government admits 'losing' thousands of papers from National Archives

Thousands of government papers detailing some of the most controversial episodes in 20th-century British history have vanished after civil servants removed them from the country’s National Archives and then reported them as lost.

Documents concerning the Falklands war, Northern Ireland’s Troubles and the infamous Zinoviev letter – in which MI6 officers plotted to bring about the downfall of the first Labour government - are all said to have been misplaced.

Other missing files concern the British colonial administration in Palestine, tests on polio vaccines and long-running territorial disputes between the UK and Argentina.

Almost 1,000 files, each thought to contain dozens of papers, are affected. In most instances the entire file is said to have been mislaid after being removed from public view at the archives and taken back to Whitehall.

An entire file on the Zinoviev letter scandal is said to have been lost after Home Office civil servants took it away. The Home Office declined to say why it was taken or when or how it was lost. Nor would its say whether any copies had been made

 

[Manter]

This is just.... aaargh. Rage

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps stealing and destroying would more accurately capture the process

 

[ska invita]

Hard to tell the extent of this, because of this bit in the middle of article

After being questioned by the Guardian, it said it had managed to locate most of the papers and return them to the archives. A couple, however, are still missing. The FO declined to say why it had taken the papers, or whether it had copies.

 

[StoneRoad]

Well, they could always claim the "missing documents" were "misfiled" and have them mysteriously re-appear.
It would not be the first time such a thing has happened, nor will it be the last.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Perhaps stealing and destroying would more accurately capture the process

Probably just due to the files being put in cupboards or whatever, and no-one knows where they are. This must happen in every organisation that handles large volumes of paperwork.

 

[JimW]

Probably just due to the files being put in cupboards or whatever, and no-one knows where they are. This must happen in every organisation that handles large volumes of paperwork.

Just another day muddling through at the National Archives...

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Just another day muddling through at the National Archives...

The National Archives probably lose stuff all the time too.

 

[JimW]

The National Archives probably lose stuff all the time too.

Sounds like it's part of the mission

 

[spanglechick]

Probably just due to the files being put in cupboards or whatever, and no-one knows where they are. This must happen in every organisation that handles large volumes of paperwork.

That the documents that show the current leaders in the worst light are the ones that happen to be mislaid?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

That the documents that show the current leaders in the worst light are the ones that happen to be mislaid?

It's always possible that the files were lost deliberately, but I think bog-standard incompetence is the most likely explanation.

 

[equationgirl]

Probably just due to the files being put in cupboards or whatever, and no-one knows where they are. This must happen in every organisation that handles large volumes of paperwork.

Happens in mine because people put stuff into archive storage without a) making a list of the box contents and b) helpfully filing the box as 'miscellaneous'. We've literally thousands of boxes with unspecified contents.

 

[StoneRoad]

Happens in mine because people put stuff into archive storage without a) making a list of the box contents and b) helpfully filing the box as 'miscellaneous'. We've literally thousands of boxes with unspecified contents.

I was once interviewed for a job, most of which was "sorting out the archives" precisely because of this attitude. I didn't get the job, luckily, as the boss was a nightmare to work for anyway and he thought he knew how the archives department should be run ...

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm not buying incompetence. Any more than this was incompetence

you can get away with a lot under the cover of incompetence. Of course the zinoviev letters gone. Proof that the conservative inclined intelligence forces and class allies at the mail conspired to manipulate the electorate and thwart a labour government. Well we can't have that. Send it to where all the files on MPeeds from the 70s went...

 

[ViolentPanda]

The National Archives probably lose stuff all the time too.

They certainly used to have stuff stolen all the time. Their filing system is great, but their internal security still sucks dog cock. Any historian with an agenda used to be able to walk in, order a file, then spend a day studying it (and pocketing anything that didn't fit their thesis).

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not buying incompetence. Any more than this was incompetence

you can get away with a lot under the cover of incompetence. Of course the zinoviev letters gone. Proof that the conservative inclined intelligence forces and class allies at the mail conspired to manipulate the electorate and thwart a labour government. Well we can't have that. Send it to where all the files on MPeeds from the 70s went...

...to MI5's own archive.

 

[NoXion]

Why the fuck are they even handing out the original documents? If someone wants to see the original documents, they should only be able to do so on the premises, under supervision, and with every file or document so viewed noted down in a logbook and signed for by both an attending member of NA staff, as well by the viewer after providing identification. At least that way if a document does get "mislaid" it will be easier to find the culprit and kick them in the balls repeatedly.

If someone wants something to take home, then why is it not standard procedure for staff to make photocopies for the purpose?

 

[Santino]

If someone wants something to take home, then why is it not standard procedure for staff to make photocopies for the purpose?

How long do you think that might take?

 

[NoXion]

How long do you think that might take?

Probably nowhere near as long as it would take to recover "lost" documents. Besides, this isnt emergency surgery so it's not as if a delay is going to really hurt anyone.

 

[equationgirl]

I was once interviewed for a job, most of which was "sorting out the archives" precisely because of this attitude. I didn't get the job, luckily, as the boss was a nightmare to work for anyway and he thought he knew how the archives department should be run ...

There used to be an actual archivist until maybe 15 years ago, then he retired and was never replaced. I don't know exactly when items started to be stored in the archives, but I would estimate sometime in the 1980s. Over the years, with the loss of proper storage in the offices, and various changes in product lines, plus forays in microfilm etc, the archives are a mess.

Occasionally somebody says 'let's get everything out of archives, and go through it'. They usually get sent the standard two page essay detailing why that is a shit idea in practice, and it's not mentioned again for a few years.

 

[Poi E]

Four days earlier the Daily Mail reports that the National Archive apologised for display that showed Empire building in a bad light. Partition wasn't so bad, either, apparently. The historical revisionism of the British state continues apace.

 

[DotCommunist]

Kincora file held back.

 

[likesfish]

Four days earlier the Daily Mail reports that the National Archive apologized for display that showed Empire building in a bad light. Partition wasn't so bad, either, apparently. The historical revisionism of the British state continues apace.

went on a rampage and oppressed 2/3rds of the world's population slightly more if you count the unofficial empire put everybody else's attempts rest of Europe, Japan, USA, various African empires the Incas and Aztecs etc in the Shade. We won at grand theft planet didn't make it right or nice though. When the SS think you had the right idea for dealing with non-white people

 

[ViolentPanda]

Kincora file held back.

It won't be released for at least another 50 years. The state doesn't want to admit that it sold the arses of boys to garner political favour.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Government admits 'losing' thousands of papers from National Archives

This will have the conspiracy theorists frothing at the mouth. Civil Service ineptitude is far from uncommon.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just another day muddling through at the National Archives...

I wouldn't like to be in charge in charge of that organisation. Depending on what they are, documents have different disclosure dates, and destruction dates, keeping track must be a nightmare. The answer would be to digitise everything, but what a task.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's always possible that the files were lost deliberately, but I think bog-standard incompetence is the most likely explanation.

Anyone who has worked in any branch of the Civil Service would agree with you.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The wider issue is how is the state allowed to suppress shit that doesn’t threaten security, but merely makes them look like the cunts they are? Why are we so accepting of this shit?