Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Or the fact that in any hierarchical institution, when it comes to promotion, idiots choose like idiots, to perpetuate the system.
Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...
- Thread starter TopCat
- Start date
Or the fact that in any hierarchical institution, when it comes to promotion, idiots choose like idiots, to perpetuate the system.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
But they had...they were following his minicab, after having had him under surveillance.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
I suppose the jury had two options: to label the police shooter as a killer ... or a trigger-happy idiot.
And, they chose the latter.
And, they chose the latter.
Unless they're accusing Tory MPs of calling them plebs. Then they are liars.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
There could be lots of reasons for them being there that night. An escalation of misunderstandings triggered by a crank 999 call, for instance.
So, the only non-police witness report has Mark with his hands in the air 'looking like he's surrendering'. And also looking 'baffled'. If you disregard everything the police say, that's pretty much all we have to go on.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Well, if the police are into extrajudicial executions they are pretty 'unproductive'.
As the low numbers of police shootings show.
This looks like a one-off tragedy to me.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Regarding this idea that Duggan was targeted for death, again - what would the motive be? Because he was "one of the 42(?) most violent criminals in Europe"
And related to this, I have another question - have any details of his police records etc (if any) been released? i.e. if it's been said that he was a "violent gangster" did he have any convictions? Given that info about de Menezes (e.g. overstayed his visa IIRC) was leaked to the police-friendly media as smears, surely if Duggan had a criminal record it would by now have been leaked? Has it? I'm genuinely asking because I don't recall having seen this, but I may have missed it.
This stuff about his being a member of a gang in itself doesn't hold much water for me, IMHO belonging to a gang can sometimes just mean living on a certain estate. I've seen references to his having been involved in two violent gun crimes...but where did this (mis)information come from if it isn't a matter of record? False rumours can be leaked, be disseminated in the press, possibly refuted months later, but the damage is done, and then the original 'facts' are repeated on Twitter... Anyone got any links please?
But anyway, his being or not being a criminal doesn't or shouldn't have any bearing on whether it's permissible to shoot dead an unarmed man (if he was unarmed, as seems to have been the case). But it may have helped to sway the jury..?
When one serves on a jury, one swears to judge the case on the evidence. Not on previous news reports, or anything else. The evidence, and ONLY the evidence.
If the jurors were swayed by press innuendo, they are beyond despicable.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
One senior officer apparently described it as: "death by a thousand f*ck ups"
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No getting around the fact that the verdict shows that the jury thought both that the policemen involved were lying and that they had killed him legally. It wasn't tiny lies either. It was full-on fabrication. So we know you're lying your head off, but we choose to believe that you thought you saw a gun - just that bit we believe, everything either side is a fabrication.
Like Harry Stanley and John Charles DeMenezes, and all the other one offs.
Not that I believe the police are "into" extrajudicial killings
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
They were. That is another issue though. The two incidents are related by being perpetrated by the same; apparently increasingly corrupt; police service.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Which they are trying to get away with by a thousand lies.One senior officer apparently described it as: "death by a thousand f*ck ups"
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I would really like to know how the jury arrived at their verdict. I wouldn't mind betting that pushy Foreman (is there any other kind?) was a DM reader.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
1999 and 2005.
It's bad, but not that bad.
I feel the shooter should face a trial.
Although, again, a jury will probably show clemency.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
he didn't mention tomlinson, smiley culture and the host of other less well known people who have had fatal encounters with the police during the act of being not guilty
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
There are those. I am thinking about shootings.
telbert
Do you like sponge?
I imagine its still pretty fucking bad for the families
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
I imagine its still pretty fucking bad for the families
Of course.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Your two options are not mutually exclusive. Seems pretty clear that the plod in question is both a killer and an idiot.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Why? It's the killing bit that's important here, surely, not the shooting bit.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
That's why criminal jurisdictions have degrees of murders.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I think I'd rather be shot to death than beaten unconscious and left to die on the floor of a police cell in a pool of my own blood.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Are there different degrees of dead?
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
It's a matter of intent and degree etc, long-established principle.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
This seems to be what they're telling us. The jury weren't ask to give a verdict on the question of Duggan's magic gun, so that whole thing can be ignored.
deadringer
meat pie sausage roll
Because no one with an axe to grind would ever say something like that. Make up the police had done something they hadn't.
Wasn't there a guy who said he could be sure of what he saw from the window of a 9th story window? Common sense tells you that some people will exaggerate, lie, or make things up, including the police themselves
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Might I suggest that it was the difficulty they had getting a gun to appear that ended up confusing the testimonies.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
But we don't have 'second degree murder' in the UK. The only question is whether you intended to kill the victim or not, if you didn't then it's manslaughter.
If you aim an automatic weapon loaded with hollowpoint rounds at someone's chest and fire, your intention to kill that person is fairly clear.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Tell that to the jury!
Similar threads
