Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[Sasaferrato]

Take a look at the link posted earlier showing that daesh are having a problem with Foreign fighters getting pissed off and abandoning their posts / deserting, to the extent that they've created an internal security force and executed a hundred of them.

So any UK born fighters fighting with Daesh who want to come home face the first barrier of being shot by daesh, followed by a second barrier of the likelihood of being locked up for a long time if they openly come back to the UK.

The result being that they're more likely to stay and fight for Daesh.

So a policy of locking them all up on return would be aiding Daesh's efforts to keep their UK volunteer fighters fighting rather than abandoning their posts and legging it back to the UK. It gives them no way out.

The best way of undermining them is to stem the flow of foreign volunteers, and get as many of them that are already there to leave when they're sick of it.

Is that perhaps something they should have considered, before joining the merry band of murderers? What did they think that they were getting themselves into?

 

[butchersapron]

is it your contention then that all of those fighting under the ISIS umbrella are beheading rapists?

Yep.

Please tell me think different.

 

[butchersapron]

FS, a boss, a bullshitter and now a defender of ISIS volunteers. Had you rumbled from the start.

 

[tonysingh]

What does that mean?

Pretty much what it sounds like.

Returnees.... I doubt they can just waltz back in. I'd much rather have a past jihadist that's renounced his/her ways and been brought back to being a functioning member of society than one that's tried to come back and been rejected. Can you not see that actions like that can former further radicalism?

 

[Sasaferrato]

is it your contention then that all of those fighting under the ISIS umbrella are beheading rapists?

I don't think they are beheading rapists, they are beheading innocent people.

 

[laptop]

What did they think that they were getting themselves into?

Sex-slaves and heroism.

 

[butchersapron]

Pretty much what it sounds like.

Returnees.... I doubt they can just waltz back in. I'd much rather have a past jihadist that's renounced his/her ways and been brought back to being a functioning member of society than one that's tried to come back and been rejected. Can you not see that actions like that can former further radicalism?

I'd rather they got killed in syria or iraq. If they want to come back from being in ISIS what would rehabilitation consist of beyond a repeated verbal commitment before an audience not to do it again?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Pretty much what it sounds like.

Returnees.... I doubt they can just waltz back in. I'd much rather have a past jihadist that's renounced his/her ways and been brought back to being a functioning member of society than one that's tried to come back and been rejected. Can you not see that actions like that can former further radicalism?

Yes, I can see your point. I can also see that accepting their repentance at face value is a tad naive.

Damned if you don't, perhaps damned if you do.

 

[butchersapron]

No, there's no coming back from volunteering for ISIS. Fuck off.

 

[J Ed]

Frankly, anyone stupid enough to fuck about on the streets of Paris at the moment, is beyond stupid.

What the fuck are you doing posting on the internet on a political forum at a time like this? Don't you know that there are terrorists all over it? GCHQ is watching and you are making their lives harder, are you a Caliphate supporter?

 

[free spirit]

Is that perhaps something they should have considered, before joining the merry band of murderers? What did they think that they were getting themselves into?

as previously discussed, many went out there originally to fight a murderous regime that's killed tens, probably hundreds of thousands of civilians.

They've since ended up being swallowed up by ISIS and unable to leave for fear of being shot as deserters.

Misguided and naive they may well have been, but unless we offer them a way out they'll stay fighting for them, and many more will join them due to the highly effective propaganda war being waged and won online by ISIS to recruit new volunteers. Those who've been there and seen the realities of it and turned away from it would be the most effective weapon we could have to counter that propaganda.

 

[butchersapron]

as previously discussed, many went out there originally to fight a murderous regime that's killed tens, probably hundreds of thousands of civilians.

They've since ended up being swallowed up by ISIS and unable to leave for fear of being shot as deserters.

Misguided and naive they may well have been, but unless we offer them a way out they'll stay fighting for them, and many more will join them due to the highly effective propaganda war being waged and won online by ISIS to recruit new volunteers. Those who've been there and seen the realities of it and turned away from it would be the most effective weapon we could have to counter that propaganda.

As not discussed at all (certainly not in the sense of a different agreement being reached as you suggest) - but, as asserted by you. And then you ignored what actually has taken place.

 

[J Ed]

as previously discussed, many went out there originally to fight a murderous regime that's killed tens, probably hundreds of thousands of civilians.

They've since ended up being swallowed up by ISIS and unable to leave for fear of being shot as deserters.

Misguided and naive they may well have been, but unless we offer them a way out they'll stay fighting for them, and many more will join them due to the highly effective propaganda war being waged and won online by ISIS to recruit new volunteers. Those who've been there and seen the realities of it and turned away from it would be the most effective weapon we could have to counter that propaganda.

What a load of liberal shit. If I ever found myself involved in a group a Salafist nonces and I had access to a firearm I would kill myself and as many members of that terrorist gang as I could, as disgusting as Al-Nusra are there is still a fucking world of difference between them and Daesh. Are you seriously suggesting that we send Daesh nonce rapists around primary schools in Birmingham to tell kids that there are better ways to fight the kuffar?

 

[butchersapron]

What a load of liberal shit. If I ever found myself involved in a group a Salafist nonces and I had access to a firearm I would kill myself and as many members of that terrorist gang as I could, as disgusting as Al-Nusra are there is still a fucking world of difference between them and Daesh. Are you seriously suggesting that we send Daesh nonce rapists around primary schools in Birmingham to tell kids that there are better ways to fight the kuffar?

New labour party/green/lib-dem - new well, what is this? This well fed naivety.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The fact that you are dealing with people that welcome death, makes it absolutely impossible to counter completely.

The only slight crumb of comfort is that they don't have access to commercial explosives in the UK, something that would lead you to believe that numbers are small, and not terribly well organised. If the London bombers had had access to blasting gelignite, the death toll would have been magnitudes higher.

Commercial explosives are not so hard to get hold of, a raid on any quarry at the right time would bring in hundreds of pounds of gelignite, they obviously don't have the manpower to organise this, at the moment at least.

 

[Sasaferrato]

What the fuck are you doing posting on the internet on a political forum at a time like this? Don't you know that there are terrorists all over it? GCHQ is watching and you are making their lives harder, are you a Caliphate supporter?

And bye bye.

 

[free spirit]

we send Daesh nonce rapists around primary schools in Birmingham to tell kids that there are better ways to fight the kuffar?

are they all nonce rapists?

you and butch have both asserted this with a fair degree of certainty, have you any evidence of this?

My contention is that there are likely a fair number who're now fighting under the ISIS banner who don't fit into that category, who went there to fight Assad, who're basically stuck there under duress and haven't had anything to do with the worst atrocities.

They're the ones who'd want to return if there was a way for them to do it, not the true believers who've got into beheading, raping etc. why would they want to come back?

 

[laptop]

The only slight crumb of comfort is that they don't have access to commercial explosives in the UK, something that would lead you to believe that numbers are small, and not terribly well organised. If the London bombers had had access to blasting gelignite, the death toll would have been magnitudes higher.

Commercial explosives are not so hard to get hold of, a raid on any quarry at the right time would bring in hundreds of pounds of gelignite, they obviously don't have the manpower to organise this, at the moment at least.

I'm not at all sure about several points there. But I'm definitely not discussing why not in public in November 2015.

 

[butchersapron]

are they all nonce rapists?

you and butch have both asserted this with a fair degree of certainty, have you any evidence of this?

My contention is that there are likely a fair number who're now fighting under the ISIS banner who don't fit into that category, who went there to fight Assad, who're basically stuck there under duress and haven't had anything to do with the worst atrocities.

They're the ones who'd want to return if there was a way for them to do it, not the true believers who've got into beheading, raping etc. why would they want to come back?

Evidence it. Support your claim.

 

[butchersapron]

I can't believe this liberal nutjobbery.

 

[J Ed]

are they all nonce rapists?

Anyone who fights to militarily impose a regime which rewards fighters and the rich with six year olds to rape, especially if they travel from Europe to Syria, Iraq or Libya to do it, is complicit enough to be considered as such and there is little that they do not deserve.

 

[butchersapron]

3 mass graves discovered so far in the now ISIS cleared Shingal - 200 dead at min. First 100 females (i think that means too old to rape, or maybe too young or too sick to make it to be slaved, you might die before you get there - waste).

 

[J Ed]

And bye bye.

Bye m8 hope that them SNP Nazis don't gas you or whatever you deluded twat

 

[laptop]

(i think that means too old to rape, or maybe too young or too sick to make it to be slaved, you might die before you get there - waste).

Too old was the way I read it. I don't think they have a "too young" category.

 

[free spirit]

However, Richard Barrett, a former counter-terrorism chief at MI5 and MI6, said repentant fighters needed "to know that there is a place for them back at home".

His comments follow reports that dozens of disillusioned British jihadis are looking at ways to return to the UK, but fear being imprisoned. Barrett, who also led the UN mission to track down Osama bin Laden, said returning fighters could prove an invaluable asset in dissuading potential jihadis from travelling to fight with Islamic State (Isis).

"Many of the people who have been most successful in undermining the terrorist narrative are themselves ex-extremists," said Barrett, adding that such people can "explain why going abroad to fight is a very bad idea".

He said: "It would seem sensible to encourage British and other foreign fighters who have joined the Islamic State or other extremist groups in Syria and Iraq, and now realise this was wrong, to come home.

"These are the people who can expose the true nature of the Islamic State and its leadership. Their stories of brutality and the motives behind it will be far more credible and persuasive than the rhetoric of men in suits.

"These repentant fighters need a way out, and although the law must take its course, they need to know there is a place for them back at home if they are committed to a non-violent future."

Isis fighters must be allowed back into UK, says ex-MI6 chief

Shiraz Maher, an expert on IS and a researcher at King’s College International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, said returning fighters should be used in counter-radicalisation. He claimed existing policy, with prosecution the principal response to returning fighters, is preventing those who remain undetected from coming forward to help de-radicalise others. “They are worried that if they do come forward they will be in trouble,” he said.

Returning ISIS fighters freed if they help combat radicalism

 

[butchersapron]

Were you pressured to behead a man and rape a child then slave her mother - then ring 1989liberalCAGE

 

[butchersapron]

Isis fighters must be allowed back into UK, says ex-MI6 chief

Returning ISIS fighters freed if they help combat radicalism

WOW. Thanks so much.

 

[butchersapron]

Isis fighters must be allowed back into UK, says ex-MI6 chief

Returning ISIS fighters freed if they help combat radicalism

Tell me, what else would you take advice from MI6 on?

 

[J Ed]

I suppose that at the very least the British security services must feel that their long history of covering up violent paedophiles can come in handy now.

 

[butchersapron]

The beating rotten liberal heart. Let's stamp it out,