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Man United 2021-24, 'Best of the Rest'

Surprised Hoijland came off, he looked hungry and useful(from highlights). Brighton tough opposition tbf.

Not to rub it in but its nice seeing the Old Order of which clubs always come top being upturned ((Chelsea))
 
Something seriously wrong with Manchester United. Ten Haag says he's been given license by the club to be a disciplinarian, to change the culture; well, under his watch:

. Ronaldo went on telly with Piers Morgan to slag the club off, internal power struggle ensued.
. One of the club's brightest young talents, after being a dick on England duty, turned out to be a vile human being; that Greenwood wasn't convicted doesn't change that his behaviour was reprehensible and the club simply couldn't tolerate it.
. The club tolerated it. Or at least tried to, then tried to put the decision onto the women's team, only as a last resort in the face of a barrage of criticism did they rip up his contract and send him packing
. Except they didn't, it's a loan to Getafe and this whole circus will come around again at some point
. His replacement on the right wing, the very expensive show pony Antony; credibly accused of doing pretty much the same thing
. The newly appointed captain, Bruno Fernandes, is just about as poor a role model for captain as you could come up with in a season where referees have been told to put the focus on fair play, respect for officials, and cutting down on the game's 'dark arts'
. Jadon Sancho, a player who has gone public about mental health struggles who almost certainly needs an arm around him to perform anywhere near his best, sent to train with the reserves and told he'll never play first team again, after going to the press about being made a scapegoat for poor performances. Not to excuse his part in the whole tawdry affair (going public was a stupid move) but player management at its absolute worst.
. Harry Maguire, still a Manchester United player

Changing the culture - going well, is it?
 
I dont follow football that closely (only keep half an eye on spurs tbh) and Ive missed the Maguire hate - whats the source of all that?
 
ska invita said:
I dont follow football that closely (only keep half an eye on spurs tbh) and Ive missed the Maguire hate - whats the source of all that?
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He's a broken footballer. Once a very good defender and deservedly an England player - his form dipped, press and fans alike turned on him, creating a self-fulfilling downward spiral of increasing vitriol and poorer performances on the pitch.

He was stripped of the Man Utd captaincy, and rarely has it been more obvious that the only hope of him ever regaining form is a change of scenery and time away from the England setup. David Moyes offered him a way out at West Ham (which could have been a good move for all concerned), but a combination of Maguire himself and the Utd hierarchy (including ten Haag) managed to fuck it up with Maguire misguidedly vowing to 'fight for his place' while no-one had the balls to say "you have to go, this place is toxic to you and by extension the rest of the team, and you won't play again".

Southgate isn't helping, with a misplaced sense of loyalty keeping the spotlight on a player who simply doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the England setup on merit at the moment.
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
He's a broken footballer. Once a very good defender and deservedly an England player - his form dipped, press and fans alike turned on him, creating a self-fulfilling downward spiral of increasing vitriol and poorer performances on the pitch.

He was stripped of the Man Utd captaincy, and rarely has it been more obvious that the only hope of him ever regaining form is a change of scenery and time away from the England setup. David Moyes offered him a way out at West Ham (which could have been a good move for all concerned), but a combination of Maguire himself and the Utd hierarchy (including ten Haag) managed to fuck it up with Maguire misguidedly vowing to 'fight for his place' while no-one had the balls to say "you have to go, this place is toxic to you and by extension the rest of the team, and you won't play again".

Southgate isn't helping, with a misplaced sense of loyalty keeping the spotlight on a player who simply doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the England setup on merit at the moment.
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Seemed it came down to money in the end. Wanted a bigger payout relative to what west ham will offer him and us paying off the difference against future wages here. He wanted the full difference paid out and we offered 6m less (varies on reports). So financially we screwed this up, should have just paid it and got a better player in, football wise he has basically ended his career. He's not getting back in the team without a lot of injuries and that's as a last resort, has been poor when that happened. Scored yet another own goal when playing for England.

I mean it's a lot of money but he also could have made a go of it at West ham, the captaincy back, legitimate club play time to help with England call ups. Chance of revival and extending career. Which would make 6m up fairly quickly with a year extension and have him actually playing football. Think he's decide to retire here now really. Options are going to be limited after more years of being a last option backup and not well paid comparatively. Depends if he wants to fade off quietly and get paid extremely well or try and revive his reputation. Guess he's going for the easier option of not playing. Can't say I'd be too fussed about getting paid huge amounts to do very little but just would expect most at top level clubs had a bit more ambition.

Match was a disaster, only saw highlights but we seem weak down the whole right side and then can't mark in the middle. Nice goal from hannibal but unless Rasmus gets a very quick start (did get that ihln the net at least) we are fucked without Rashford starting every game.
 
Yeah he should have left. The criticism is over the top now especially from general football fans for whom he has been solid for England over the years but he's got no chance of coming back at United.
Ten Hag has had a perfect storm of off-pitch distractions, lots of injuries and some close calls but it sounds like Brighton wasn't good. The team has no fight and too many players who go missing when the going gets tough. And he is now making some strange subs which isn't going to help. A bit bleak. And Bayern to come...
 
All i can guess with the subs was it was fitness reasons or avoiding injuries since we were already fucked. If there appears to be no chance we are coming back why risk the brand new striker, he got the ball in the net even if offside, match minutes ahead of bayern.
 
chilango said:
I'm finding it almost impossible to give a shit anymore. The club seems utterly rotten. On the pitch and off the pitch.
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Particularly weird with some shares of united. Sell it to a sportswashing guy and I get money from it? But the club gets investment, but its still sportswashing. Not a fan of keeping glaziers on the board either. Right mess.

Lack of half decent proposals and greedy owners is a mess. We could have had a ridiculous amount of money coming up and helping the team but for debt and dividends.

Hard to find people with the money to buy out that are actually not dreadful unfortunately and we have a mess already
 
pbsmooth said:
Yeah he should have left. The criticism is over the top now especially from general football fans for whom he has been solid for England over the years but he's got no chance of coming back at United.
Ten Hag has had a perfect storm of off-pitch distractions, lots of injuries and some close calls but it sounds like Brighton wasn't good. The team has no fight and too many players who go missing when the going gets tough. And he is now making some strange subs which isn't going to help. A bit bleak. And Bayern to come...
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Do wonder why Martial is still there as well. He's had injuries and a few short runs of scoring goals but, from memory, only one good season over a decade or so at the club. Whatever contract he is still on will have him on eye watering money but, ffs, the club know he is never going to be a first choice player and so does he.
 
Wilf said:
Do wonder why Martial is still there as well. He's had injuries and a few short runs of scoring goals but, from memory, only one good season over a decade or so at the club. Whatever contract he is still on will have him on eye watering money but, ffs, the club know he is never going to be a first choice player and so does he.
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One of the glaziers blocked his sale
Maybe more than once I think, mourinho and possible ole/ten hag.
 
chilango said:
I'm finding it almost impossible to give a shit anymore. The club seems utterly rotten. On the pitch and off the pitch.
Click to expand...
That's where I'm at really. Soon after the Glazer's took over I said I'd never financially support the club and haven't been to OT since. But throughout that period I've 'supported the team'. Anticipating the Qataris taking over, I hoped that might tip over into wanting the team to lose as well, but who knows, it's hard to shake off 50+ years of being a fan. Then yesterday, I heard the results and couldn't manage anything more than a shrug.

Pundits always say shithousery at the top of a club tends to work its way down to the players. I'm not sure if that's happening at the moment, particularly as they were playing a bit better last year - also in the shadow of the takeover. Same time, whilst they're not there yet, there's a whiff off the Ole period going on with the players. The club spends lots of money to buy mediocre players. It makes decent players into mediocre ones but can't sell them. Ultimately though, the atmosphere must be dreadful.
 
We can't sell players, we aren't a selling club by financial means but we continously fuck up transfers. Nothing is worse than selling for a large sum. We are scraping the barrel for money half the time. Overspending, wages insane. Ten hag fixed some of this but there is insane amounts of dead weight kicking about from years of a mess ran on just commercial decisions allowing it.

They have a monster commercially but it's being sucked dry. A lot has been shifted but we have so many sitting back and getting daft amounts for nothing. Seem to be trying to buy the old ajax team now. It's better than buying complete nonsense at random but it's not infallible. Anthony has been a disaster. Not to mention the allegations and greenwood. Never seen a club attract so much negative attention in this way. What the actual fuck.
 
Just mismanaged from the top down. At least football is generally going to shit due to ownership, Saudi etc so it's a bit easier not to care so much.
 
pbsmooth said:
Just mismanaged from the top down. At least football is generally going to shit due to ownership, Saudi etc so it's a bit easier not to care so much.
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Glazers have been a parasitic worm rather than actual owners. 'Leveraged buyout', fuck me. But even then you'd have thought they could have found a way to have competent people running the shop. The team happen to be a bit shit at the moment, but it's really everything that's fucked: player contracts, recruitment, the stadium.... I bet even the tea is shit.
 
The39thStep said:
Never knew you supported them
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Since before birth. 3rd generation (at least) fan. Season ticket holder as a kid in the late 70s. Like a lot of my family remember an era when we used to hang out with the players. I remember playing with Lou Macari's kids in the players lounger, Jimmy Nichol gave me a model plane when we went round his house. Uncle played golf with Best and Crerand etc.etc.

I would never have chosen to support them but I've never felt so utterly distant from the club, the team, the whole thing.

..but I do miss football "mattering" to me.
 
Is it too early to talk about your goalkeeper? All goalies make mistakes, but that last night (while not Karius/Taibi-esque) was an absolute clanger. Couple that with his usual shot-stopping starting position being virtually on his own line, he looks a liability.

I know he was well thought of at Inter (didn't watch them often myself so I'm going off hearsay), what's the craic?
 
Zapp Brannigan said:
Is it too early to talk about your goalkeeper? All goalies make mistakes, but that last night (while not Karius/Taibi-esque) was an absolute clanger. Couple that with his usual shot-stopping starting position being virtually on his own line, he looks a liability.

I know he was well thought of at Inter (didn't watch them often myself so I'm going off hearsay), what's the craic?
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It's confusing, he actually has very good shot stopping stats, is good from corners and distribution is bonkers for a keeper.

He plays a bit like a quarterback tho, pings it very accurately wherever but needs a solid defence to stop him getting metaphorically flattened. Especially when he's pushed forward, that lob comes to mind. We are weak down the right and no one is tracking runners into the box. If I can see that then people who do this properly for a living certainly can and it's being exploited. Our midfield is a mess and the defence is mostly injured.

There's a bit from a Terry pratchett book on foot the ball. Paraphrasing but "every save the keeper makes shames the team". If we could actually defend properly he would have less to deal with anyway. Last year was ddg but also defence was solid, attack was the problem. Not getting kim min jae and buying mount instead was a huge mistake. Varane gets injured and maguire was supposed to leave, so instead of a defender we get a player for way more that doesn't appear to fit anywhere. If everyone was available I don't see him starting, which is odd for 70m quid or whatever it was.

Onana was used to the defence he had and it was not chopping and changing every 4 minutes. Hard to get much of a understanding when it's different players all the time. His stopping can improve, 27 isn't that much for a goalkeeper. Getting the first choice defence in regularly would be the best thing for him.
 
I definitely think our defending is more of a concern than the keeper (for now). And the injuries and changes to the team don't help that. But some people just aren't putting a shift in which is annoying - McTominay came on, lost the ball, and just jogged back behind the ball.
But Onana's desire to hold on to the ball and pick an amazing pass is getting a bit annoying, slowing the play down and feels like we're waiting for a cock-up.
As for his general keeping... we shall see. But certainly not blown away. feel like we could have won last night with De Gea in goal...
 
I'm not asking just to be a dick, genuinely interested. I've heard all about Onana by stats and reputation in Italy, remember an unbelievable save for Ajax v Spurs (Lucas Moura scored the rebound), but haven't consistently seen him until regular appearances on Match of the Day. Rarely has reputation contrasted so much with the (admittedly limited) evidence of my own eyes - watch the Brighton goals back, for all 3 he's standing on his own line and showing the whole goal. Confidence & an ever-changing back 4 are legit contributions to poor form, but narrowing the angle is one of the first things to teach U10 goalkeepers.
 
He'd hardly be the first player to turn up there and then look absolutely shot for confidence in about three months would he? I'd say the question is why it keeps happening over and over again rather than anything specific to him.
 
Biggest club in the world in terms of media coverage... I don't think anyone is prepared for it and not everyone takes to it straight away.
 
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